Stubborn Hamstrings

[Ian Myers]

Hey guys,

Ive been doing pnf stretching with my hamstrings every other day since may, and i have little to show for it. My routine involves putting my foot on top of my dresser with my leg out at about a 90 degree angle compared to my standing leg. I contract the hamstring for 6 seconds, and then reach forward to stretch it for 20. I do this three times on each leg, and I feel much more flexible when im done, but since May i doubt ive increased my stretch past my toes more than an inch. Am I doing something wrong?

Another thing, I recently went to a chiropractor for an unrelated injury, and asked him about my problem. He felt around my hamstrings, and said that they appeared to be very loose, with no noticeable knots. Might the problem be in a surrounding muscle? Btw, I ultimately want to have the active flexibility to perform a v-sit.

[Aaron Griffin]

You'll need to increase the height of the leg as you continue to do that. Stack books or something on the dresser, and increase ROM every week or so

[Cole Dano]

Can you post some photos/video of yourself doing the mentioned routine and your max hamstring stretch?

(Note: only one post of a topic is needed, people will see it, and mods will delete duplicate threads)

[Ian Myers]

Can you post some photos/video of yourself doing the mentioned routine and your max hamstring stretch?

(Note: only one post of a topic is needed, people will see it, and mods will delete duplicate threads)

I apologized if i already had this thread up, I must have forgotten

Anyway, Ill get a video up by tonight, thanks you guys!

[StevenF]

I have a similar problem to you; I was doing an 8 minute or is hamstring stretch each day (various static and dynamic stretches). After the stretching I feel a little more flexible, however a couple of hours later I'm almost back to the start again and they feel extremely tight. Mine sound worse though, I can't even touch my toes in a standing pike.

p.s. I did Romanian deadlifts last week and since then they have been terrible. When I perform static stretches they feel like they're going to snap or tear.

[Scott Malin]

Inflexible hamstrings can be a symptom of other problems just as much or more than it is the limit to gains itself. Can you give us an idea of all the flexibility work you do besides hamstrings directly? Also, you will get far better results by changing technique you use.

I would recommend a modified lunge (credit Kit Laughlin), as this allows you to prevent lumbar flexion and do a contract-relax on two different part of the hamstrings. In your lunge, have the back knee and lower leg on the floor, while using the hand opposite your stretching leg to stabilize on the floor. Take your other hand (same as stretched leg) and hook it underneath the hamstring and grab on to your stabilizing arm. This allows you to lean your torso on your quads. From there, increase the stretch to your perceived maximum by either extending your quads, or by sliding your rear knee further behind you. Breath and relax until you get a bit more stretch, and the do your first contract-relax by scissoring (motion of pulling front foot backwards). The second contraction is to press the front foot into the floor (more bicep femoris and some glute max).

[Rik de Kort]

p.s. I did Romanian deadlifts last week and since then they have been terrible. When I perform static stretches they feel like they're going to snap or tear.

RDLs really tear up your hamstrings, but most of it goes away after a bit. I've been doing RDLs 3x a week for a little over two weeks now and my hamstrings still aren't 100%, but it's definitely gotten a LOT better. So keep at it and it'll get better. I didn't do any stretches, though.

[Joshua Naterman]

What cory is suggesting is a good stretch. I like the lunge variation... I have been occasionally doing a non-kneeling version with one leg in front of the other that is essentially the same thing. I just use a park bench or a rail to provide the immovable object to brace myself against for the contraction part of the PNF stretch.

A note: It can be difficult to do correct PNF to yourself because you have less than 1 second to increase the ROM. True PNF stretching can be done rapid-fire, until you reach the point where your discomfort is pretty much at your reasonable limit. This is not the same thing as pain. If you have a partner, PNF becomes much more effective and efficient.

You will want to do several different stretches, and one of the best I have used is lying on the ground with a strap or belt.

PNF stretches I suggest:

1) single leg butterfly. Take your right leg, put it on a couch or bench or bed in front of you so that you can lay down on your lower leg with the knee near the right shoulder. Don't be a stickler for specific positions, do what feels good. Now, with as much of your bodyweight as you are comfortable with, lay down on the leg keeping most of the pressure on the KNEE, not the ankle or shin. This prevents excessive torque inside the knee. Now, once you have found your end of ROM try to lift your body up by ONLY pressing the knee into whatever elevated surface you're laying on. Take 1-2 seconds to build up to pressing as hard as you can without feeling like you're going to hurt yourself, and have your hands on the surface ready to take the weight. After 6 seconds of maximum tension just let all the tension go and use your hands to only let yourself drop as far as you can in 1 second. Repeat until you simply can't take the stretch due to discomfort but NOT pain. This is a very different feeling and won't be sharp but rather very intense and diffuse through the piriformis and glutes. You do not need to rest between contractions and relaxations but you may do so if you wish. Sometimes this helps when you get close to the true end of the stretch.

Now, repeat on the left leg.

2) The lunge variation cory suggested, via Kit

3) lying on your back with a strap, one leg at a time, perform a similar contract/relax sequence as #2. Also, do one set with a straight leg and one with your knee starting on your chest and a bent leg. This will change the emphasis of the stretch and be synergistic. (you'll get more out of the combination than either one alone)

4) bent knee standing pike, one leg at a time. Start by laying on your thigh, then extend the knee with the quads while keeping stomach on the thigh with hip flexors. Extend to discomfort, hold, and then extend again.

5) same as 3, but both legs at once. Literally working towards a fully compressed pike. This will tell you exactly where you are tightest in terms of what is keeping you from getting a fully compressed pike.

* It is a very good idea to do GENTLE PNF, not to absolute limits but simply to a good endpoint that is reasonably comfortable, several times a day. Pick the stretch that is easiest or most effective for you and just use that for this purpose to save time. I'd do your favorite PNF pike stretch AND the hip stretch (#1).

I'd do the full routine 2-3x per week, because PNF is primarily training the CNS and PNS to do what we want. This requires consistent work.

The tissues will also physically adapt over time. Don't expect to be in a pike in 2 months, but you will make reasonable progress.

As you become more flexible, progress will slow down because your tissues will be lengthening and that takes time. Lots of time. You have to be consistent and sometimes be happy with a 1" increase in flexibility over 3 months.

[Joshua Naterman]

A quick foam rolling session (1-3 minutes per leg) can really make a big difference for some people. For others not so much, so be sure to play around with a foam roller and a lacrosse ball immediately pre-stretch and don't go TOO deep. You're not trying to break anything up, just trying to stimulate the nervous system. Don't stay on tight spots for more than 10-30 seconds. You need to hit the whole leg quickly.

[Rik de Kort]

I'd do the full routine 2-3x per week, because PNF is primarily training the CNS and PNS to do what we want. This requires consistent work.

Parasympatethic nervous system?

[Joshua Naterman]

Peripheral, sorry!

[Rik de Kort]

Ah, yes, that makes a lot more sense. I was wondering what the hell was up.

[Ian Myers]

Here's what I've been doing.

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Foam rolling hasn't helped, but I might give that a try pretty soon. Knowing that the stretch must happen fast while practicing pnf, is it worth getting down fast or is injury a possible consequence of this?

[Parth Rajguru]

Using a lacrosse ball or something similar to do SMR works better than using a foam roller for the hamstrings. There was a mobilitywod video showing the technique a while ago.

[Joshua Naterman]

Here's what I've been doing.

iQ-hX_uyHik

Foam rolling hasn't helped, but I might give that a try pretty soon. Knowing that the stretch must happen fast while practicing pnf, is it worth getting down fast or is injury a possible consequence of this?

You have to move fast, but only move an inch or so. Less, when you feel lots of tension. All I can say is be smart and listen to your body, no one can tell you exactly what to do or how far to go.

[Kyle Courville]

I have a general suggestion for your hamstring stretch. Try to suck your femur deeper into your hip socket before stretching - sort of like when you retract your shoulders. I also find that it helps to imagine pushing your hips through your leg while stretching. This will put more focus on the hamstring and less on the lumbar. Use caution though; it puts more focus on the hamstring. :wink:

[Karl Kallio]

It seems to me like you're focusing on the "showy" part of the stretch without addressing the things that limit your ROM. Take a look at a screen-shot of your video. I would separate the stretch into 3 parts.

First the yellow line: Focus on getting the lower leg straight. I would keep the upper leg bent and the body straight while you do this.

Then the blue line: with your bottom leg decently straight pass your attention onto the top leg. try to extend the knee downwards towards the floor. Unless you plan to do your v-sit with bent knees this is the key aspect

Finally the green line: Once the knee is straight work on pushing your lower back towards your ankles. Only once your lower back has reached its limit reach with your arms.

I would also consider including some pike stretches, sticking both legs together changes the whole stretch

[Joshua Naterman]

I have a general suggestion for your hamstring stretch. Try to suck your femur deeper into your hip socket before stretching - sort of like when you retract your shoulders. I also find that it helps to imagine pushing your hips through your leg while stretching. This will put more focus on the hamstring and less on the lumbar. Use caution though; it puts more focus on the hamstring. :wink:

I think you're referring to squaring the hips when you talk about sucking the femur into the hip socket, as this is actually a pelvis movement and it absolutely is a good idea. Most people have no idea how their hips are supposed to be able to move, and single leg deadlifts are a great way to learn.

[Joshua Naterman]

It seems to me like you're focusing on the "showy" part of the stretch without addressing the things that limit your ROM. Take a look at a screen-shot of your video. I would separate the stretch into 3 parts.

[attachment=0]Hamstring.png[/attachment]

First the yellow line: Focus on getting the lower leg straight. I would keep the upper leg bent and the body straight while you do this.

Then the blue line: with your bottom leg decently straight pass your attention onto the top leg. try to extend the knee downwards towards the floor. Unless you plan to do your v-sit with bent knees this is the key aspect

Finally the green line: Once the knee is straight work on pushing your lower back towards your ankles. Only once your lower back has reached its limit reach with your arms.

I would also consider including some pike stretches, sticking both legs together changes the whole stretch

This is an awesome breakdown of the stretch!

I would focus on the green line first, personally, because that's where the actual stretch is being screwed up the most. Trunk flexion isn't going to help with hamstring flexibility, it's just a cute way to try and pretend you're more flexible than you are.

I would work on the blue line second, and worry about the yellow line last.

That's not to say that I think that they shouldn't all be worked on at the same time, but you have to set realistic and smart priorities.

Those are:

1) stop flexing your trunk so much. Try to only move at the hip. It will help immensely to try to think of touching your belly button to your knee. This will keep your back flatter.

2) Focus on the contract-relax cycle with the blue line, and move into and out of the full stretch multiple times per session. Do not let this keep you from performing priority #1.

3) As you learn to flatten your back and bring your belly button to your knee (visualization here, that's never going to really happen obviously) with both a bent and straight leg, start working on straightening your supporting leg while keeping the hips squared.

[Ian Myers]

Thanks for the advice guys! 8)

Will the active flexibility needed for a v-sit come with the passive flexibility or are there ways to speed this up? Besides sitting in a v-sit of course

[Joshua Naterman]

V-sit leg lifts as shown named "V-ups" in BtGB.

Blairbob and others have also shown other versions of this, but you have to practice it specifically. Passive flexibility alone is just unused potential. It's great to have, so long as you can control the ROM, but not a great indicator of actual performance against gravity.

[Kyle Courville]

I think you're referring to squaring the hips when you talk about sucking the femur into the hip socket, as this is actually a pelvis movement and it absolutely is a good idea. Most people have no idea how their hips are supposed to be able to move, and single leg deadlifts are a great way to learn.

Sorry for such a bad description. That's what I was talking about - stretching from the hips and not the lumbar. I knew what I meant, but I couldn't explain it well. I still have lots of work to do on communicating my ideas clearly. :oops:

[Sailor Venus]

I haven't read the entire thread properly. I'll give my two cents on hamstring stretches.

I often used front splits. During the front split, lean forward and grab the bottom of your feet. You should feel a stretch in the hamstring of the front feet and the hip flexor in the opposite leg. Its nice.