Olympic Weight Lifting + Gymnastics = ?

[Hayden.M.]

hi all

i was wondering if doing olympic stlye weight lifting such as the deadlift, the snatch and the clean and jerk, would supplement gymnastics training very well? I remember reading an article a while back stating that in the year (something) they did an experiment on which athlete could do the highest verticle leap and the fastest 60 yard dash, and guess who won both? thats right, the olympic weight lifters. they could jump higher, from standing, than basketball players and high jumpers, and they could run that 60 yard dash even faster than sprinters! so maybe if you combined this type of activity with gymnastics conditioning, what would be the results?

any replies greatly appreciated,

Thanks

[RandomHavoc]

There have been numerous threads already on this topic.

Search is your friend.

[niftyvt]

If your goal is to compete in gymnastics than its a mixed bag. If your goal is to get as strong as possible than, in my opinion, the big compound lifts are GREAT! If your body can take it deadlifting (and the others) is an amazing movement.

[trianglechoke7]

Olympic lifting won't help you be better at gymnastics because it will make your legs too thick. Also, combining the two methods is difficult on recovery.

If you goal is to just be an overall badass, then cautiously combining the two is warranted.

[mikey88]

I have been practicing gymnastics for the last couple of years (recreationally as an adult) and have been primarily bodyweight strength training.

As an experiment I started doing weightlifting 2 months ago (santches, C+Js, squats & deads). I found found that the height of my tumbling has really improved from this which I have found really helpful.
If your a natural tumbler obviously rebound & technique is what essentially does it. But for less gifted athletes such as myself I really alot on strength for my tumbling. Therefore I have found doing weights really helpful.

On a side note while my handstand pressups & straddle press handstands havent improved. Anything to do with holding straight handstands or jumping on my hands (basically a small range of motion) has been improved most likely from the top part of a snatch or Jerk.

To manage the fatigue I try and do little and often.
Normally 3 sets of low reps 3-5
2 lifts per session - 1 olympic lift and alternating between the dead & squat

I try and do this about 2-3 x per week - usually 2 x per week (sometimes only 1) is enough for excellent carryover - especially as far as stimulating the nervous system. I have noticed a small amount of weight (muscle gain) but I dont think that hinders my tumbling as im not a high level athlete.
Also if your worried about putting on weight watch your diet and keep your repetitions low so that shouldnt be too much of a problem

Mikey88

[cccp22]

I have been practicing gymnastics for the last couple of years (recreationally as an adult) and have been primarily bodyweight strength training.

As an experiment I started doing weightlifting 2 months ago (santches, C+Js, squats & deads). I found found that the height of my tumbling has really improved from this which I have found really helpful.
If your a natural tumbler obviously rebound & technique is what essentially does it. But for less gifted athletes such as myself I really alot on strength for my tumbling. Therefore I have found doing weights really helpful.

On a side note while my handstand pressups & straddle press handstands havent improved. Anything to do with holding straight handstands or jumping on my hands (basically a small range of motion) has been improved most likely from the top part of a snatch or Jerk.

To manage the fatigue I try and do little and often.
Normally 3 sets of low reps 3-5
2 lifts per session - 1 olympic lift and alternating between the dead & squat

I try and do this about 2-3 x per week - usually 2 x per week (sometimes only 1) is enough for excellent carryover - especially as far as stimulating the nervous system. I have noticed a small amount of weight (muscle gain) but I dont think that hinders my tumbling as im not a high level athlete.
Also if your worried about putting on weight watch your diet and keep your repetitions low so that shouldnt be too much of a problem

Mikey88

*********** From what i understand the Russians were really high on gymnastics as "gpp" and "active rest" for their Oly lifters.
Brandon Green

[Blairbob]

There is a lot of crossover between gymnastics and OL in the Eastern Blok. Especially at earlier ages of training.

[trianglechoke7]

My answer above wasn't nuanced enough. Context matters.

There comes a point that extra leg girth will impair gymnastics skills. If you are a skinny kid who has chicken legs then adding leg size probably isn't going to be an issue in the near future. If this is your case, then careful administration of olympic lifting could certainly be beneficial for enhancing tumbling skills. Or, if in the beginning of oly training you improve mainly neurological factors that help jumping ability, you're not going to see any detriment from oly lifitng.

The best benefits will be seen in the rank and file beginners who are so far from their genetic ceilings that they don't tap into their recovery abilities enough to be harmed by combining both methods or who have chicken legs.

[mikey88]

I think thats exactly what I have found. As ive only started weight lifting again very recently - used to do it recreationally before as part of general training but not for at least 5 years then im getting the definit neurological gains.

I think most people on the forum are your weekend warrior types so a bit of muscle gain will probably not do much to hinder their gymnastic abilities. If your really worried about muscle gains, stick to singles and drop (not lower the weights). Although if your a high level competitive athlete this may be an issue, but like I said it probably doesnt affect the majority of people on this forum

Also if you stick to low reps & sets it shouldnt fatigue you too much to interfer with regular gym training.

cheers
Mikey88

[slizzardman]

I'm a big guy, so my experience may be different from the smaller guys here. I've found that gymnastic work is fairly intense, since I am 226 lbs as of today. I train 3-4 days a week, but never more than twice a week for a muscle group. I've found that I make the same gains on my big lifts when I do them once every 10 days or so as I do when I am lifting more often and doing less gymnastic work, but of course my gymnastic work suffers when I do that. I do think that deadlifting, C&J and snatching can be beneficial, but I really only need to work on it once or twice a week in low volume to get pretty much the same gains as a dedicated program if I'm doing gymnastics training as well, and everything progresses nicely.

You have to try and remember that the body loses strength very, very slowly compared to how fast it recovers, so frequency for strength building doesn't have to be high.

[Blairbob]

Yeah, the body doesn't really lose strength; it loses neural efficiency, unless of course your strength:weight ratio changes for the worse.

Thanks for clearing that up as my statement was very broad and crude.

[slizzardman]

HAhaha, the body definitely loses strength. Just not quickly. It takes somewhere around 3-4 weeks to lose the strength gains from one workout. You START losing them after 3-4 days, but it takes 3-4 weeks to return to baseline according to both my own experience with people and the large number of studies referenced throughout many books, including Thomas Kurz's Science of Sports Training. That's why, when training for strength, infrequent programs tend to have better long-term results. When I say infrequent, I mean infrequent in the sense that specific muscle groups and movements are performed infrequently (which is somewhat subjective, but typically not more than twice a week and often less than that).

So when you're only working PPP once a week, don't think that you aren't going to be making gains. You will. Depending on your bodyweight you may even make better gains with a once a week program than if you work more frequently than that. I definitely fall squarely into that category.

[Seiji]

This is only partially related: (any my opinion)
I think deadlift is better for jumping that squats. A deadlift technique is more similar to actual jumping than the squat technique. I was watching a video of myself and I noticed that it looks like a deadlift when you go down to jump back up. The back doesn't need to be straight and you normally throw up your arms, but it's basically the same. For me, that is. I don't really know what to compare one legged flips with... Definitely not pistols.

[Blairbob]

To note, I began gymnastics and found myself powerful enough to quickly gain skill in tumbling besides having a really high backflip early on. I attribute this to the fact that I had been lifting and oly lifting for a few years prior. I didn't have spectacular numbers in my O-lifts because of a lack of technique but I was BS around 350 for around 5 reps@ 150ish (didn't do DL as I worked heavy jump shrugs).

I had a pretty high standing back in those days or so I was told by my fellow coaches though none were really that advanced of gymnasts.

It may have led to me being heavy for my size (5'1ish) but honestly since I was basically learning on my own with a few meager resources it wasn't like I ever got very far nor really had dreams of doing so, it was just fun. As well, the extra size was something I liked since I was always short. There is a big difference between being 5'1 and 120's and 150's or 170's (though this wasn't really a lean weight as I prob ran quite a bit of BF then from southern food and it's where I am now and probably with a BF level of around 15% I think, which was far higher as I was around 7-9 with calipers when I was 150ish).

[niftyvt]

Fatbar deadlifts and heavy front squats are my plan for today, followed by some other stuff if I feel up to it. After my 45 min or so hand balancing practice that is