Rachid Tahri Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I saw video with Olympic gold medalist Arthur Zanetti performing "banana" shaped handstand on parallel bars. I wondered whether he ignored the mobility training or this is just a choice he made. Also the lift to handstand is more of planche to handstand then a true lift. I am not a gymnast but started gymnastic training 1.5 years ago. After reading much articles of coach Sommer I assumed that a pro gymnast would have a well aligned handstand, but when I subscribed to my local gym I saw lots of banana handstand even at highest levels. Does this have to do with the competing pressure (learn stuff as fast as possible so that you can compete), genetics,...? Discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADRIANO FLORES CANO Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Then it is the best banana that I've ever seen! I think that it is not a banana shape at all, in fact, that shape is typical in pommel horse, pbars, etc. That hs forms bringth them a lot of momentum to be able to do the things that they do in the air. It is not a matter of "wrong" hs shape, it is just perform best. They can do a very straight HS if they want to, just see their floor routines. Besides, in gymnastics I guess it is not useful a straight HS due to speedy movements they have to do. It is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachid Tahri Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Thanks for your opinion Adriano! I do not agree with your statement that this shape is typical for pbars since Fabian Hambuchen has completely open shoulders in pbars routine right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Zanetti happens to be very good on rings; however his other events are less than spectacular. In this instance his parallel bars are quite poor. Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuri marmerstein Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I saw video with Olympic gold medalist Arthur Zanetti performing "banana" shaped handstand on parallel bars. I wondered whether he ignored the mobility training or this is just a choice he made. Also the lift to handstand is more of planche to handstand then a true lift. I am not a gymnast but started gymnastic training 1.5 years ago. After reading much articles of coach Sommer I assumed that a pro gymnast would have a well aligned handstand, but when I subscribed to my local gym I saw lots of banana handstand even at highest levels. Does this have to do with the competing pressure (learn stuff as fast as possible so that you can compete), genetics,...? Discussion.Do not make assumptions. There are a lot of factors that go into handstand development and being a gymnast of any level does not necessarily qualify someone to have a straight handstand. What I am seeing here is someone who compensates for a lack of active mobility by using brute strength. Could his technique be more ideal? Yes Does he make it work? Yes, to a degree Also remember once fatigue kicks in, people start to fall back on their old habits. Handstand is a complicated beast so it's good to not be too quick to make assumptions. I have seen plenty of professional hand balancers with absolutely terrible lines, but I can only talk so much since in the end they're still doing harder tricks than I. Often times it's finding a balance of attaining perfection and using your strengths to make things work. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachid Tahri Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 I've seen your handstands Yuri...nothing but deep respect. About those handstand balancers with terrible lines that can do harder tricks than you: you have at least one trick they can't do . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuri marmerstein Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Since true perfection can never be attained, there will be a point where you have to make it work. I like to compare two hand balancers with completely opposite style and technique, Willy Weldens and Andrey Moraru. Willy is really strong but not very flexible, Andrey is very flexible but not too strong. They have distinctly different styles(look them up) but they both make their style work for what they do with it. Who is to say what kind of handstand is wrong or right? Remember, people are still individuals with their own issues, as an athlete it is up to both you and your coaches(plus lots of time) to dictate what your skills will look like. Simply being called a gymnast or handbalancer makes absolutely no guarantees to anything of the sort. A gymnast from the 50s or 60s would have moved quite differently than a gymnast from today. Likewise, plenty of old school hand balancers with banana handstands did plenty of tricks people are still not replicating today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachid Tahri Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Yuri: It's not about right or wrong. It's about choice (he likes the banana so much so he chooses it) vs inability (he can't do a straight handstand due to mobility issues like you already suggested), and how things come to be that way. Maybe he did all kinds of mobility drills and still couldn't achieve a "straight" handstand (inability) because of his genetics! And off coarse I'm aware that he's an athlete trying to make a living so at some point he has to do something, but this is not what I was getting at... In your case for example you have a straight handstand. And if you like the banana you can also do the banana! You have choice. In my case for example I want to do a straight handstand but I can't (inability at the moment)! I can do a banana one! I'll keep trying but now at the moment I can't, and maybe I'll never achieve a straight handstand (which is fine). But I'm not going to "defend" my precious banana by saying that "it's a matter of taste"...or "right/wrong"...."banana looks better.." etc. etc. Taste only matters when you have choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Burnham Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 No it's about right and wrong in gymnastics. The handstand is a fundamental position in which the correct shape carries over into a lot of other things including swings and presses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuri marmerstein Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Yuri: It's not about right or wrong. It's about choice (he likes the banana so much so he chooses it) vs inability (he can't do a straight handstand due to mobility issues like you already suggested), and how things come to be that way. Maybe he did all kinds of mobility drills and still couldn't achieve a "straight" handstand (inability) because of his genetics! And off coarse I'm aware that he's an athlete trying to make a living so at some point he has to do something, but this is not what I was getting at... In your case for example you have a straight handstand. And if you like the banana you can also do the banana! You have choice. In my case for example I want to do a straight handstand but I can't (inability at the moment)! I can do a banana one! I'll keep trying but now at the moment I can't, and maybe I'll never achieve a straight handstand (which is fine). But I'm not going to "defend" my precious banana by saying that "it's a matter of taste"...or "right/wrong"...."banana looks better.." etc. etc. Taste only matters when you have choice. you may have misinterpreted me a bit. Simply being a gymnast does not guarantee having a straight handstand. Should a gymnast have a straight handstand? By today's standards yes. Will all gymnasts achieve a straight handstand? Not necessarily but that doesn't mean they should not stop working towards it. Handstand is a constant work in progressIn general, people can talk all the shit they want on the internet, but until they can perform this routine with a straighter handstand all the talk amounts to nothing. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 As a gymnast, I had a good handstand (and I still do have a good handstand), but I remember that on the pbars I used to arch slightly on the way down to be able to whip my body for having a more powerful swing, and I could do a triple back dismount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilian Schmahl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Triple back? Into the pit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I did dare doing it on a normal set of pbars with a landing crashmat. Before I tried to do it in the pit, I could do double pike and a half (falling on my back) onto mats slightly higher than the bars. Passed easily a few times, then I tried with a normal setup. I should specify, I never did it in competition because it is very different at the end of a routine. But I had a very nice opening on my double pike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrobatlegend Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Maybe the little banana handstand he does makes it easier for him to swing into his other moves. Like how you arch right before doing a snap down drill for example. Really though, it's a minor point - it's really not that bad given the fact that he did all that other amazing stuff in the routine. Plus, as long as he does not get deductions from the routine, it's not a problem. If it did give deductions I'm sure he (and everyone else) would clean it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 ... Maybe the little banana handstand he does makes it easier for him to swing into his other moves ... Nonsense. Quit making excuses for his poor technique. The simple truth is that he is only good on the rings and not very good on the other events. Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrobatlegend Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Nonsense. Quit making excuses for his poor technique. The simple truth is that he is only good on the rings and not very good on the other events. Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer I wasn't trying to make excuses. I was just brain storming as to why he did that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 - He did it because he is incapable of doing better. - And yes, he should have incurred very heavy deductions for that PB routine. Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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