Super PPP?

[Brian Li]

I know, but that is irrelevant as it shouldn't move the COM away. The point of the video was to determine where my COM is in the full lay and compare with the location of the hands relative to my COM in the leans. My arms were also bent in those "super planche leans" if you haven't noticed because I didn't want to aggravate my elbow tendons as they are injured.

[Coach Sommer]

Hardly irrelevant.  Without straight arms there is no planche COM to evaluate.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Nic Branson]

Will add a note if the tendons are in fact injured and this bothers them, than you should not be doing it as you are hurting your own recovery

[Brian Li]

Hardly irrelevant.  Without straight arms there is no planche COM to evaluate.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I know that it's not a real planche if arms are bent if that's what you are trying to say, but I don't believe bending the arms will change where my COM is if the body position is still the same and with no arch or pike. Maybe my physics knowledge is a lot worse than I've thought, but looking at planche push-ups tells me otherwise. I'm pretty sure a full lay elbow lever will have the COM at the same place as a full lay planche. If I'm wrong can someone explain then please?

 

 

Will add a note if the tendons are in fact injured and this bothers them, than you should not be doing it as you are hurting your own recovery

Thanks for the warning. It could be tendinitis, but I'm not sure. I've had it for months now and I think it's about 90% healed now. It was painful with locked arms, bent arm stuff don't seem to aggravate or hurt them, so I stopped doing planche holds and any straight arm work over the months and only did bent arm movements like planche push-ups, but without fully locking out of course.

 

I've cautiously tested out my planche (locked arms with hands back) earlier starting with tuck then later on to straddle and full lay for a very brief duration and felt no pain, just a lot more pressure than I'm what I was used to (before the injury I would hardly feel any pressure in the full planche with fingers back). 

 

Could it be that they are fully healed already, but just got weaker from not training straight arm inner elbow exercises for a long time? 

[Coach Sommer]

Of course the arms being bent changes the COM; if they are straight the shoulders will need to lean that much farther forward to compensate.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

Every body position has its own unique CoM, though it is fair to say that there is going to be a very minute change with bent arms vs straight arms.

 

The major issue will be muscle contribution and pressure on the elbow, both of which you can probably feel. As the arm straightens you will feel like there is more of a lean, as Coach has said. The lever of the arm becomes longer, and this increases the forces on the shoulder girdle (and other supporting musculature) quite a bit, even though the location of CoM is not hugely different. Make no mistake though, CoM IS different.

 

Take it easy getting back to the straight arm stuff, and good luck avoiding injury in the future.

[Brian Li]

Thanks for the helpful explanations Josh and Coach. I don't plan to jump back right into straight arm training immediately just in case and will take it easy when I do. I know to always warm up now. 

 

I think we can now all agree that my hands are behind my COM in those leans. Does anyone know how much more difficult overbalanced/over-leaned planche leans are compared to a full planche? Like how much more force is needed per inch behind your COM. Thanks in advanced! I'm bad at physics.

 

Will planche leans (feet braced) with the hands at your COM be comparable to a full planche? I would assume it may be slightly easier due to the feet being supported.

[Nic Branson]

You're still comparing apples and oranges.

Planche Lean is not a Planche.

Worry about training where you are at and do what you can do. Chasing and worrying about what you cannot do yet will greatly slow your progress.

[Brian Li]

Excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong, but how are they comparing apples to oranges? Isn't a planche lean and planche like the same thing, but a planche lean is with the feet on the surface thus taking some weight off the shoulders? With over-leaned planche leans there isn't much weight on the feet as they would fly off if they weren't braced. I'm pretty sure the force on the shoulders are harder than an actual full planche if the hands were placed 3 inches or more behind your COM. Probably the force is already greater than in a full planche if the hands are placed any distance behind your COM. I know the core will be working harder and differently in an actual planche than a planche lean, but my comparison is about the force on the shoulders.

 

I agree with your last statement that you should worry about where you are at and what you can do than chasing what you cannot do yet, but I wasn't chasing what I cannot do yet. I'm just curious as how these overbalanced planche leans would compare to a full planche. I'm not chasing the full planche if you meant that because I've already achieved it with locked arms and good form with a max hold of 5-6 seconds back in late 2012. I don't see how being curious or wanting to learn/know more is bad for you or the community. 

 

Lastly, I wanted to say that I do take your posts and others' seriously and with high regards, just that there may be some disagreement or misunderstanding between us and I hope no bad feelings are developed. 

[Joshua Naterman]

The body orientation is different, and that makes a huge difference in what you are teaching your body to look for.

 

In terms of pure forces, since your center of mass isn't changing much you just do the physics. If you don't know how to set it up, just measure your lever length for the arm (approximate) and the location of your center of mass. You can do this on a picture you print out, because you're looking for ratios. From there, getting a friend to help you out is probably a good idea.

 

It's impossible to give you real numbers, because we'd have to dissect you in order to find the actual insertions of everything

[Brian Li]

Thanks Josh! I appreciate the detailed explanations you give.