Back Lever Curls vs. Front Lever Rows vs. Curls

[Afiya Zia]

Just wondering about some of the harder bent arm conditioning exercises on the rings. I'm not yet at the level where I can do these, except curls, which I somehow did one day to show off in front of friends the topic is just me wondering which exercise is working what and in which way, and whether some are more effective than others.

As far as I know, each of these exercises are conditioning the following muscles:

Curls: Chest, Biceps, Anterior Deltoids, lats?

FL Rows: Lats, Posterior Deltoids, Biceps, Middle and Lower Traps and Rhomboids

BL Curls: Chest, Anterior Deltoids, Biceps, middle back musculature?

Anyways, just something I was thinking about.

[Jeff Walker]

Never heard of BL curls, do you have an example?

[Alexander Svensson]

Never heard of BL curls, do you have an example?

I believe they are in BtGB if you have it.

[Ralph Palutke]

i guess bl curls would be similiar to the beginning phase of pelicans.

in other words: they are brutally hard, harder than the other elements you've named.

[Afiya Zia]

A BL Curl is bending the elbows from a BL. The more that I think about it, the harder it seems compared to the other two.

[Jon Douglas]

A BL Curl is bending the elbows from a BL. The more that I think about it, the harder it seems compared to the other two.

Much harder than curl to shoulderstand IME.

[Jeff Walker]

Much harder than curl to shoulderstand IME.

IS that the beg of an Inverted Muscleup or elevator?

[Jon Douglas]

IS that the beg of an Inverted Muscleup or elevator?

Yes, which is then completed by pushing up from shoulderstand to handstand.

[Joshua Naterman]

Yes, which is then completed by pushing up from shoulderstand to handstand.

My opinion: BL curls are not harder than the first half of a reverse MU, assuming we're talking about the foot-supported version. If we're not talking about foot supported, we're talking about pelicans and that's a whole different ball game.

 

My reasoning: I have done those BL curls in front of people at the seminar two years ago, Desi remembers. She could do them too. I could not do the first half of reverse MU. 

[Jon Douglas]

My opinion: BL curls are not harder than the first half of a reverse MU, assuming we're talking about the foot-supported version. If we're not talking about foot supported, we're talking about pelicans and that's a whole different ball game.

 

My reasoning: I have done those BL curls in front of people at the seminar two years ago, Desi remembers. She could do them too. I could not do the first half of reverse MU. 

Well, I'd visualised it without support (and thus nuts), but I stand corrected.

My experience is based on the negatives, I can't curl all the way up to shoulderstand or perform Ians

[Brian Li]

BL curls (unsupported) and supinated grip BL pull-ups are more difficult than the inverted curls (bottom half of the inverted MU).

[Jeff Walker]

Well, I'd visualised it without support (and thus nuts), but I stand corrected.

My experience is based on the negatives, I can't curl all the way up to shoulderstand or perform Ians

 

Well, I'd visualised it without support (and thus nuts), but I stand corrected.

My experience is based on the negatives, I can't curl all the way up to shoulderstand or perform Ians

Whats an Ian?

[Jon Douglas]

Whats an Ian?

Back lever curl to Korean dip on a bar. Sort of a muscle up with hands behind you.

Before you ask, I've only seen it unspotted on youtube once, can't remember the video, but it was part of a larger compilation with an unhelpfully non-descriptive name.

[Joshua Slocum]

My opinion: BL curls are not harder than the first half of a reverse MU, assuming we're talking about the foot-supported version. If we're not talking about foot supported, we're talking about pelicans and that's a whole different ball game.

 

My reasoning: I have done those BL curls in front of people at the seminar two years ago, Desi remembers. She could do them too. I could not do the first half of reverse MU.

Just my personal opinion on terminology, but if it's done with a support, I'd call it a supported back lever curl. A back lever curl would start from a back lever, i.e. the first half of a pelican.

[Brian Li]

Ians are insanely difficult! Not even Coach's boys can do them unspotted. Some of the Russian and Ukrainian street workout athletes can do them, but I haven't seen a completely full lay one before. There's also the German hang MU which is also very difficult.

 

A back lever curl would start from a back lever, i.e. the first half of a pelican.

Wouldn't the first half of the pelican actually be a supinated grip BL pull-up? BL curls are shown to be a multiplanar curling exercise from BL to the bottom of a dip or Korean dip in BTGB. They're both very similar though, I think supinated grip BL pull-up may be slightly harder.

[Joshua Slocum]

Wouldn't the first half of the pelican actually be a supinated grip BL pull-up? BL curls are shown to be a multiplanar curling exercise from BL to the bottom of a dip or Korean dip in BTGB. They're both very similar though, I think supinated grip BL pull-up may be slightly harder.

Yeah that's a reasonable argument.

[Alessandro Mainente]

Joshua it's right. i have reverse mu starting from 130° of elbows flexion, and supported back lever curl are easier compared to this exercises. and i don't want to talk about the beginning part of elevator, the difference is bigger.

[Brian Li]

Just wondering guys, but how much harder will a BL curl or supinated grip BL pull-up be compared to the inverted curl (bottom half of elevator)? 

 

Edit: Oh and I forgot, how would a German hang curl compare to those?

[Joshua Slocum]

Just wondering guys, but how much harder will a BL curl or supinated grip BL pull-up be compared to the inverted curl (bottom half of elevator)? 

 

Edit: Oh and I forgot, how would a German hang curl compare to those?

The BL pullup would be about 25.35% harder than the BL curl, +/- .04% depending on your particular anthromorphism, with an additional variance of up to +/-1% based on the strength of the Coriolis effect (the strength of the effect depends on your lattitude and which way you're facing; people in the tropics facing east/west will have a more difficult time with the BL pull-up). The inverted curl is similar to the back-lever curl, except that neurologically speaking it is less complex because it isolates the biceps more strongly; the additional electrodynamic load of having to coordinate the biceps with the anterior and posterior muscle chains is much more stressful on the somatic nervous system because of the increased need for bandwidth in neural feedback processes. I would estimate that this results in a jump in difficulty around 35.645%, although that figure is merely based on the median distribution of muscle-fiber composition among adult gymnasts, so again expect there to be some variance within the general population.

[Brian Li]

Thanks for the detailed info! 

 

Coach did put the BL curls as harder than the inverted curl though. Someone told me the German hang curl was easier than the full lay BL curl.

[Jon Douglas]

 your particular anthromorphism,

the Coriolis effect (the strength of the effect depends on your lattitude and which way you're facing; people in the tropics facing east/west will have a more difficult time with the BL pull-up).

 

Heh.

[Christian Sørlie]

http://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/coriolis.htm

[Brian Li]

Would the German hang curl have about the same difficulty on the biceps as the inverted curl since they are both upright?

[Afiya Zia]

German Hang Curls are tough for me supported, but Inverted Curls in a tuck or straddle are easy enough. Once I overcome my fear of being upside down (I know, shut up ), then full-lay won't be a problem either.

But that's just me

[Parth Rajguru]

Remember, the biceps are not exclusively elbow flexors. Passive insufficiency applies here: the further the stretch, the harder it becomes. Also, there are 4 elbow flexors that need to be accounted for in these advanced bent arm pulling elements.