Using GST to become better at Capoeira

[Randeep Walia]

It was suggested that members of GB who train Capoeira start a new thread to discuss Gymnastic Strength Training™, BtGB, the Foundation and Headstand series and how we can incorporate those principles into our Capoeira training.

 

So here it is!

 

I'll start things off with one of the best models of balance, speed and agility, as well as creative expression: Cada de Peixe.

 

[Edward Prah]

Hey IcedDante. Thanks for making this! Ya Cara de Peixe ( I heard it means Fish Face) is one capoeirista I look up to. He's so smooth. It seems like there is nothing holding back his hips. Plus he's very light on his feeet. For some reason I believe he would be great in ballet and gymnastics.

[Michaël Van den Berg]

It's Cara de Peixe, not Cada but yes, he's one of THE most awesome capoeiristas out there when it comes to 'movement quality' (something that is lacking in a lot of capoeiristas).

[Rachid Tahri]

Wow...this dude has so much flow in his movements. Every move seems to integrate into the other. Nice to see!

[Craig Mallett]

That was incredible! He just floats over with that last flip! outstanding.

[Michael Pinto]

That guy is awesome to watch. I've always been a huge fan of CDO capoeiristas like:

 

Contra Mestre Kibe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3PgmWzoX6w

 

Instrutor Aranha: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJaKmQzWjXQ

 

Amazing ground work.

 

What groups do people here train with? I am a part of Grupo Ondas under Mestrando Tigre in RI.

[Randeep Walia]

I trained with Capoeira Brasil in San Diego

[Edward Prah]

Just wanted to post some inspiration for us big guys. We can do this too! Check out this guy in the beginning of the vid. He has it all, strength, flexiblity, speed. Great movement.

[Marios Roussos]

Beautiful. I can watch that all day.

[Bryan Wheelock]

How long is the progression to start doing back tucks in a Capoeira program?

This is one of the skills I'd like to pickup.

 

I've also done some searching, but I've not seen a progression list for Capoeria. 

Lot's of stuff on the belt/cord progression, but no mention of the skills at each level.

Have you found any progressions lists?

 

I've been thinking of either Capoeira or a Adult Gymnastics class. Adult gymnastics is harder to find in Atlanta than Capoera, but I'm concerned about have a good progression so my tendons can adapt. 

 

How do you assess a Capoeira teacher?

[Fred Mak]

i find that most adult gymnastics classes are a joke.  most of the gymnastics teachers give you like 1-2 min. of attention per class, so i've been wondering about capoeira classes as an alternative.  My main interest is in learning handstands, but the acrobatic/flow type stuff is ok too.  honestly, i have zero interest in the sparring, singing, or musical instruments aspect of capoeira.

 

i've got a couple of questions:

 

1. how much personal attention do you get in capoeira classes?

 

2. my main interest is in learning handstands.  how much are handstands practiced in capoeira?

 

3. i know that there is sparring (roda?), singing, playing instruments and then flow/acrobatics/handbalancing.  what is the breakdown of how much time is allocated per class for flow/acrobatics/handbalancing?

 

4. anyone hear of mestre Amen Santo and Mestre Muito Tempo?  are they any good?

http://www.capoeirapasala.org/

it's near my home.  

 

thanks 

[Michaël Van den Berg]

If you want to pick up skills like backflips and handstands, capoeira is not the most efficient way to get there. Especially when you have no interest in the musical and martial aspects.

Capoeira does not have progressions like gymnastics does. Capoeira teachers can be very inspiring but most of them have no clue about proper training structure etc. Of course you start by training more 'basic' elements and progress to training more 'advanced' elements but this mostly pertains to kicking, escapes, takedowns, and less so to the acrobatic elements. When it comes to acrobatics your teacher shows you a movement and you just try to replicate it until you either get the move or get injured and decide it's not for you. That's why there are many advanced capoeiristas that hardly do any acrobatics at all and also many beginners that can do all kinds of tricks but have no skills in the game at all.

Please don't think that all capoeiristas are able to do everything you see in the showreels on Youtube.

I played capoeira for 8 years and still love the game for what it is, so please don't read this as an attack on capoeira... but the truth is that you should only train it if you love the game. It's not optimal if you just want to learn a couple of great moves.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

(...) Capoeira does not have progressions like gymnastics does. (...) your teacher shows you a movement and you just try to replicate it until you either get the move or get injured  (...)

 

Now, where else have I also seen that?     

[Randeep Walia]

I don't doubt that you have had some negative experiences Michael, but this has not been my experience with Capoeira Instructors and Mestres at all. Instead, many of the people in my group have a very strong background in training cycles, different aspects of Capoeira, dealing with injuries, etc. I learned how to backflip in Capoeira and I was given step-by-step instructions to training this safely.

 

I do however, agree that Capoeira is not the place to go if your primary motivation is learning gymnastics skills. In Capoeira, that is definitely an afterthought and in many case is not approached until later in a Students training life.

 

That being said I have had some great experiences training with Capoeira Abba and Capoeira Maculele in Atlanta, GA. I believe the latter has started to incorporate Saturday gymnastics classes into their routine.

[Michaël Van den Berg]

I trained with one of the world's best and largest capoeira groups and I was trained by one of the founding mestres of the group. I'm not saying that capoeira teachers can't teach capoeira, because they certainly can. But you will agree with me that the number of injuries in capoeira is very, very high and this is mostly due to a lack of formal education in training methodology, exercise physiology, proper warm-ups, joint preparation, effective stretching etc. among the teachers. I know this is also true for many other martial arts but in the case of capoeira it has more impact because of the extensive occurrence of 'acrobatic' movements that don't lend themselves well to the concept of 'just give it a try' without proper physical preparation.

Anyway, I think we agree that capoeira is a fun game and also that it's not the most productive environment if you're mostly interested in learning handbalancing and backflips

[Randeep Walia]

Man, if I could convince every group to schedule in a cool-down stretch for after class I feel like you would have much healthier students

 

I'm not an expert myself, but yes: a foundation in exercise techniques, physiology, etc is definitely not a prerequisite to training Capoeira. I do wish it was.

[Lauren Salemi]

so then...if adult gymnastic classes are a joke...and capoeira isnt the move efficient way to learn those acrobatic gymnastic skills then? Where does one go?

[Keilani Gutierrez]

work with someone who knows how to scale the work, really.

first you do body shapes, them body shapes in dynamic motion and then plyometric(explosive) movements in skills.

someone who can teach you all three would be excellent.

[Fred Mak]

lauren,

 

in my experience, MOST adult gymnastics classes in my area are a joke, but that doesn't mean that there aren't good ones.  i actually found one good one around my area that only meets 1x a week, so i've been going to the good class 1x a week and going to another gymnastics school for a shitty class 1x a week.

 

maybe you can find a worthwhile gymnastics class around your home.

[Lauren Salemi]

hahahahah okay thank you guys

[Randeep Walia]

I feel like the problem with adult gymnastics classes is that 1) They (coaches) don't want to waste time with adult students when they're trying to raise the next generations of Olympic champions and 2) a lot of the people that have interest in adult gymnastics are people that used to train when they were younger and have stayed with it or are coming back.

 

I think it's slowly changing.

[Edward Prah]

Do you guys think a more efficient use of time is to build strength and mobility first and then start working on the skills?

I notice with most martial arts classes, that they want to build both at the same time. I feel like it will take longer to see the results. Plus you'll learn bad habits performing skills since you don't have the strength or mobility to execute properly. Is this right?

[Jon Douglas]

Do you guys think a more efficient use of time is to build strength and mobility first and then start working on the skills?

I notice with most martial arts classes, that they want to build both at the same time. I feel like it will take longer to see the results. Plus you'll learn bad habits performing skills since you don't have the strength or mobility to execute properly. Is this right?

I always thought you could train them at the same time, but my recent experiences have changed my mind. Then again, you'd need to have a very patient student and a knowledgable teacher to spend a year or so getting strength basics up to scratch before training technique. This is more traditional-style training, and people don't really have time for that these days, not when there's another school you can pay to teach you more flashy technique sooner....

#totallynotranting #mcdojo #20minutehorsestance

 

No easy answers here, although I can say that my future private students are going to both hate and love me

[Craig Mallett]

Its also an oldschool chinese martial arts way of training. They would typically spend 3 years training "jibengong"
which roughly translates as basics or foundational exercises, before getting into any skill work (such as sparring or fighting), the idea being that if the foundations is right, the skill work is just a matter of picking up some timing, rather than having to do timing at the same time as worrying about shape, strength, mobility or structure. Seen a lot of people develop bad habits that are hard to get rid of by avoiding this method.

[Jon Douglas]

Its also an oldschool chinese martial arts way of training. They would typically spend 3 years training "jibengong"

which roughly translates as basics or foundational exercises, before getting into any skill work (such as sparring or fighting), the idea being that if the foundations is right, the skill work is just a matter of picking up some timing, rather than having to do timing at the same time as worrying about shape, strength, mobility or structure. Seen a lot of people develop bad habits that are hard to get rid of by avoiding this method.

Yes, that's where I'm coming from, and my hashtags