Shoulder Dislocates

[Jon Douglas]

Adding weight changes the activation completely. If my anatomy-fu was better I'd write an essay on this and the difference between actively rotating and just relying on flexibility while moving the hands over :S perhaps someone else might pick this project up some day.

[Alessandro Pantanella]

I've read all the posts of this great topic but is still unclear to me what coach means with "inlocate or, in other, words, think of rolling your shoulders forward".

 

Does it has something to do with internal/external rotation or it only means the deltoids have to guide the movement?

 

I feel this is a key point of the exercise and want to make sure to get it right.

 

Thanks

 

As you lift the belt up and then backwards over your head, rather than thinking of moving your hands back, first "inlocate" or, in other words, think of rolling your shoulders forward. This will rotate the shoulder joint in the socket, making the backwards movement much smoother.

As you bring the belt back forward, first "dislocate" or roll the shoulders backward, then bring the arms around.
 

[GoldenEagle]

I've read all the posts of this great topic but is still unclear to me what coach means with "inlocate or, in other, words, think of rolling your shoulders forward".

 

Does it has something to do with internal/external rotation or it only means the deltoids have to guide the movement?

 

I feel this is a key point of the exercise and want to make sure to get it right.

 

Thanks

Dislocate is internal rotation of the upper arm. It is what happens when you move your arms from the front, over your head, and finally to the back.

 

Inlocate is external rotation of the upper arm. It is what happens when you mover your arms from the back, over your head, and finally to the front.

[Colin Macdonald]

Make sure to do them with...under...grip!

 

My shoulders will officially not do this.   How the heck can I get started on theses?

 

edit: Or perhaps I'm just rotating my hands incorrectly. How exactly is the grip on underhand dislocates?

 

Like the grip here at the three minute mark?

 

[Jon Douglas]

My shoulders will officially not do this. How the heck can I get started on theses?

edit: Or perhaps I'm just rotating my hands incorrectly. How exactly is the grip on underhand dislocates?

Like the grip here at the three minute mark?

Start light and wide, ie something you can drop safely if it jams-- the grip is kind of like an exaggerated false grip at the front from normal supinated grip at the back. For me the wrist pressure keeps my working sets a couple of notches lower than the overgrip,

Start the rotation from your shoulders, lift just like weighted extensions, and keep your elbows straight and your wrists loose so they can flex and accommodate the movement.

If you start a H1 thread with where you are now I have the day off and don't mind working through it with you

[Colin Macdonald]

If you start a H1 thread with where you are now I have the day off and don't mind working through it with you

Thanks, I think I've got the idea now.  I first tried it starting with a supinated grip from the front and my shoulders we're like... 

but working the way you described makes sense. Do you normally start from the back on these?

[Jon Douglas]

Thanks, I think I've got the idea now.  I first tried it starting with a supinated grip from the front and my shoulders we're like... 

but working the way you described makes sense. Do you normally start from the back on these?

Heh.

Yes, I do start these from the back-- pick it up behind me as if I'm doing HS/PE2>im, palms down. I find it difficult to get the grip right if I try to start in front, and that makes me nervous of it slipping out of my grip onto my head.

[Colin Macdonald]

pick it up behind me as if I'm doing HS/PE2>im, palms down

 

Perfect, got it. These I can do. I'll try a few sets at the end of my next session, lighter weight, wider grip. 

 

At first I thought I had unearthed a new and wondrous world of shoulder dysfunction. 

[Alessandro Pantanella]

Dislocate is internal rotation of the upper arm. It is what happens when you move your arms from the front, over your head, and finally to the back.

 

Inlocate is external rotation of the upper arm. It is what happens when you mover your arms from the back, over your head, and finally to the front.

Thanks for the explanation but how do you do this correctly, I'm not sure what coach means with: "think of rolling your shoulders forward" .

Is it simply that you have to focus on driving the movement from the shoulder instead of the arms?

 

I've tried to force internal or external rotation and felt awkward. Then tried to raise the shoulder as high as I can when my arms are pointing straight up, not sure about this either.

 

Am I just over thinking it and should just do it the way it feels more natural?

[Connor Davies]

Am I just over thinking it and should just do it the way it feels more natural?

Yup.

 

Once your grip gets tight enough and you're really straining, you'll find yourself throwing your shoulders around anyway trying to get that extra ROM.  Usually this kinda up/forward (in my experience)

[Alessandro Pantanella]

Yup.

Once your grip gets tight enough and you're really straining, you'll find yourself throwing your shoulders around anyway trying to get that extra ROM. Usually this kinda up/forward (in my experience)

Thanks, looking forward to get to that ROM!

[Connor Davies]

Thanks, looking forward to get to that ROM!

Heh. I'm down to 60 cm now....

[Alessandro Pantanella]

Heh. I'm down to 60 cm now....

Pretty good! Would you mind to share your experience with it? I'm curious to know how you progressed.

I've been doing it along wall stretch 3 times a week for the last 3 weeks and my shoulder start to feel more mobile.

[Connor Davies]

Pretty good! Would you mind to share your experience with it?

Yeah sure. I've been doing them with a broomstick handle that has ring marking on it every 10 cm. twice a week, with a 1.25kg weight. I'm aiming to achieve 5 sets of 5 for both regular and dorsal dislocates, but..... Seriously I'm probably pushing this one too hard. Everyone talks about how amazing their shoulders feel after a few sets, but I've never made it through all 5 because I physically CAN'T.

Anyway, the intention is to close to 40cm with the dorsal dislocates (they lag about 10cm behind) before I up the weight. Hopefully I'll work all the way up to 20kg by the end of the year....

As for my experience? Well, apart from the ridiculous pump in my traps and the vaguely tearing sensation in my front delts.... I'm definitely looser on my right side, which is a really strange feeling. Oh, I also warm up with a few unweighted sets just so I don't jump in cold, and I close an extra 5-10 cm every set. Last week it went 90 (unweighted) 80 (unweighted) 70 (weighted) 65 (weighted) 60 (weighted) with a slightly wider set of dorsal after every set.

One thing I am worried about is the shear force on your elbows. As my grip gets closer and closer, I'm definitely feeling more elbow strain as my shoulders try to force my upper arms apart. I haven't been able to find any literature on this one however....

Anyway yeah keep them up. Don't feel afraid to push yourself on these. It might FEEL like your gonna hurt yourself, but as far as my (very limited and anecdotal) knowledge goes, no one ever actually has.

Disregard that last statement if someone follows this post with a gruesome tale of dislocate injuries.....

[Douglas Wadle]

I've been working these similar to bipocni.  5# weighted iron pipe.  markings every 5 cm.  I don't look at the markings during my stretching.  I start each session quite wide to warm up and every rep scoot my hands a little closer and do more.  take a break after 10 or so reps and shake the arms out.  a few minutes later, repeat.  Usually on my last rep of last set I'll look to see where I am and have been surprised that even though I didn't think I was making much progress I really am.  I am basically at the outside of my shoulders now and have increased weight to 10# which does make it harder, though not dramatically so.  I can't get quite as narrow with the greater weight, so once i can i will up the weight again.  I think it should not be painful. Mild discomfort as with any stretch is probably ok if you have good body awareness.  Keep pushing tiny increments over time and you will see it will get much easier as 1) strength increases and 2) flexibility increases.

[Jon Douglas]

A stretch, even quite an intense one, is par for the course, but pain is not a good thing. It's not necessary to risk injury to get heavy + narrow on these.

Recommend bicep/brachialias/pecs stretching before working them hard if you are getting too much pull on your elbows.

[GoldenEagle]

Thanks for the explanation but how do you do this correctly, I'm not sure what coach means with: "think of rolling your shoulders forward" .

Is it simply that you have to focus on driving the movement from the shoulder instead of the arms?

 

I've tried to force internal or external rotation and felt awkward. Then tried to raise the shoulder as high as I can when my arms are pointing straight up, not sure about this either.

 

Am I just over thinking it and should just do it the way it feels more natural?

Assuming you have elevated your scapula, the medial (external/rolling forward) and or lateral (internal/rolling backward) articulation happens naturally as you lift your arms up and over your head. Due to previous shoulder injuries or shoulder problems, range of motion will, initially, vary between individuals.

 

Exrx.net: Shoulder Articulations

Exrx.net Scapula Articulations

[Colin Macdonald]

One thing I am worried about is the shear force on your elbows. As my grip gets closer and closer, I'm definitely feeling more elbow strain as my shoulders try to force my upper arms apart. I haven't been able to find any literature on this one however....

 

I've found the key here is to activate the shoulders strongly against the stretch you're feeling. If you don't, I find that the tension tends to torque the weakest link (relative to my shoulders), that being the elbows and having my grip slip off. Basically use your shoulders to actively push against the tightness that is pressing against your elbows, if that makes any sense.

 

It's like the great tip for HS/iM2 to keep the pits of your elbows pointed to the ground. It's all about using the shoulders to rotate the arm into pushing at the correct angle. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly, but I don't get any elbow discomfort anymore working this way.

 

I've found this stretch to be the best for my shoulders/pecs. 

 

Though you need to get your arm way higher than the guy in the picture to hit the front of the shoulder. In the position he's demonstrating, I've found it mostly just hits my chest. Optimally you should be able to pick your chest up high and roll over the bottom arm at any arm angle. At a minimum your hand should be above your head for a good stretch, as your shoulder opens, move your arm higher while keeping your shoulder pressed into the ground.

[Alessandro Mainente]

Nice answer colin, i agree, this exercise is very good. probably i would add

-internal arm rotation

-turn the hand palm up after the rotation, squeeze the fingers in a punch and flex completely the the hand activating the forearms flexors.

this is the most efficient way to stretch also the bicep. especially for those where the bicep is a limiting factor to stretch the chest.

you can use a combo of both, before your stretch the chest, then then bicep. the only recommendation is, as in in the photo, maintain the stretched shoulder on the same line of the opposite hip.

[Alessandro Pantanella]

Great conversation guys, thanks for sharing experiences and tips.

My weak link is the wrist in particular the external area where the visible rounded bone is.

It's a limiting factor when I try to narrow my grip, and I have to struggle to keep the grip strong all the way.

I started very wide for the first 2/3 weeks and the wrist adapted slowly but now that I'm gripping closer I have wrist discomfort for days after the exercise.

I usually do them after a workout so I'm pretty worm.

I'm wondering if this could be related to tightness in the shoulder or arm and the wrist tightness being only the result of it.

[Ivan Pavlovic]

Quick question: should scapula be elevated while doing shoulder dislocates ?

[Coach Sommer]

Quick question: should scapula be elevated while doing shoulder dislocates ?

 

Yes.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Ivan Pavlovic]

Thanks.

[Bill Köhntopp]

Seriously I'm probably pushing this one too hard. Everyone talks about how amazing their shoulders feel after a few sets, but I've never made it through all 5 because I physically CAN'T.

 

Today i did 5x5 sets of the dislocates(iM) and it was really hard, biceps, elbows, traps. everything feels so crampy after these

As for my experience? Well, apart from the ridiculous pump in my traps and the vaguely tearing sensation in my front delts.... I'm definitely looser on my right side, which is a really strange feeling. Oh, I also warm up with a few unweighted sets just so I don't jump in cold, and I close an extra 5-10 cm every set. Last week it went 90 (unweighted) 80 (unweighted) 70 (weighted) 65 (weighted) 60 (weighted) with a slightly wider set of dorsal after every set.

 

Have to try this too, starting with no weights must be easier to get into it

One thing I am worried about is the shear force on your elbows. As my grip gets closer and closer, I'm definitely feeling more elbow strain as my shoulders try to force my upper arms apart. I haven't been able to find any literature on this one however....

 

Same for me, would like to hear more about the elbows, should we turn the elbows in some way while shoulders move behind the body?

 

[Coach Sommer]

All of these symptoms (excessive shoulder girdle fatigue, elbow discomfort etc) arise from working too heavy, too narrow and with too much intensity much too soon for your current capabilities. There are no technical modifications to the exercise that will correct this situation until you learn to pace yourself more appropriately.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer