Pommel horse progressions and basic training

[Karl-Erik Karlsen]

Hey - I'm sorry if this is covered extensively in an old post. If so, I'd be happy to read it if someone could point me in the right direction

If not, here goes:
Me and my training partner want to learn an apparatus. We have limited access to equipment however, but we do have a mushroom and a low pommel horse.

Can anyone tell me what the best progressions to do are, in order to learn basic/intermediate pommel horse skills? And are there any other supporting elements that should be trained - for example on the floor?

I'm thinking of pathways like: Reverse plank --> german hang --> tuck front lever --> adv. tuck front lever --> straddle front lever --> 1/2 front lever/one leg out front lever --> front lever... You know, the usual suspects, but for pommel horse/mushroom.

I'm currently doing F1 + HS1, so I'm getting those foundational pieces in order over time.


Thanks for any help! I'm totally clueless when it comes to PH.

[Daniel Burnham]

Before soon anything you should build up good plank endurance in all directions elevated on the mushroom. I would say at least 60 sec holds I'm reverse side and front.

Progressions for circles:

Scissors should begin with straddle kicks in the back and front support position. Then move to false scissors and eventually to scissors.

These things should keep you busy for a while

[Karl-Erik Karlsen]

Haha, yeah - I can see that!
Thanks a lot Daniel, this was exactly what I was looking for. I'll ask you again for some pommel elements in 2020....
When you say scissors and straddle kicks here, do you mean for example in a front support position, to be swinging straddled legs towards either side?

[Daniel Burnham]

Yea. Basically. You should focus on the lean and try to kick your leg up to your ear. Do not let the legs come together at the bottom either.

[Karl-Erik Karlsen]

Cool.
So, how does this routine look?

We will be doing it after an acrobatics class, so we'll be generally warmed up and fresh for it. I mostly focus on rolls, flips and cartwheels at my level, during class.

PB walk - 1 x Forward, return backwards
Plank walks - Starting at 3x6 reps, aiming for total 30 reps eventually (using the rep progressions from F1 for these exercises)
Reverse plank walk  - Same

5 minutes spent "walking" around the mushroom to get acquainted with the movement (later on to hops, 1/4, 1/2 circle etc)
4 directions plank on the mushroom (regular, reverse, left side, right side) - 3x12 seconds each position, goal: 60 seconds each
Tuck jump through (on low pommel horse) - 3x3 start, goal: 15 rep

I guess the progression schema from F1/HS1 will work just as well here. I'm not sure what the goals should be, except for 60s planks as you said, but I just used some common sense to come up with this. Any modifications I should do to it?

[Karl-Erik Karlsen]

I'll add in the scissors later.

[Daniel Burnham]

looks decent.  I might move the planks on the mushroom to before the walks and hops so that you can feel the positions you should be before you add movement.

 

pay close attention to the position of the hips (elevation orientation) and also about how much you are leaned over your hands.

 

Once you get good circles it shouldn't feel like you are pushing much anymore.  On mushroom mine now feel like I am hanging on and just reorienting my weight  The momentum of my body hanging right from my shoulders does the rest.

[Daniel Burnham]

I forgot to mention.  I also used a technique that coach teaches to learn to allow swing from the shoulder rather than trying to hinge in the hips.  It is mentioned elsewhere on this forum.

 

This is me in January:

 

This me playing around a little while ago.  Maybe October?

 

Just a side note:  Personally I think the Chinese approach is probably better.  They don't seem to use the mushroom as much and put their kids on pommel bucks early on.  The mushroom is how I learned but I think the transfer to big boy horse would have been much easier if I had a buck or and ege trainer.  If you have a bucket then that will also help a lot for learning hand positioning and keeping your hips turned out.

[Karl-Erik Karlsen]

Much appreciated!

That hanging drill looked very useful, I'll see if the gym has the appropriate equipment - but I think it should.
And by the way, very impressive work you have done there! Inspirational stuff

[Karl-Erik Karlsen]

We tried the routine for the first time today and I think it will work great - but I need to work a lot on my reverse plank to get the proper movement, might have to do a little rev plank every day. And the tuck throughs were a lot harder than they looked! Great stuff =)

[Blairbob]

http://drillsandskills.com/skills/pig/

 

Yep all the plank positions. Side, Reverse, Straight Arm plank with leans eventually.

 

The upper arm body circle is good. Another one is to get into support on a set of PB and move your feet and hips around a mushroom underneath you.

 

I also teach kids to do straddle swings and body circle hanging from rings besides plenty of time in the bucket.

 

A gagillion support swings. I really like to make kids do more stride swing than straddle swing at first. It's harder. I will also have them do a double leg swing in front or rear support. Basically teach leaning side to side with shoulders and eventually get the body to swing back and forth.

[Christo Smallwood]

All the videos and advice here looks good but how do you then progress to handles?

[Daniel Burnham]

For the kids we use handles on the mushroom first. I didn't like this approach so i did a lowered full pommel horse first. The trick is to learn to start from an elevated surface and swing into. Don't jump into it start the swing and let it rise up over the side of the pommel. Also get ready for some leg bruises when you hit the horse.

[Blairbob]

 Also the use of single or double pommel mushroom trainers can be used besides a side horse without legs.

[SM3091]

Sorry for reviving an old post. I have a question about pendulum swings for scissor work on a horse. As mentioned earlier in the thread, we want to maintain leg separation in the swing. My question is, do we have to keep the hips square with the horse? I believe the shoulders should be square. So, do we want the hips to be square and move to either side in as wide of a middle split as possible? Or is it okay to let the hips tilt a little and allow the legs to slightly pike?

 

I hope my language makes sense. I'm not sure if I'm describing my problem well. 

[Blairbob]

Watch

[Christo Smallwood]

I am no sort of gymnastics coach but don't think it is necessary to keep the hips square. The shoulders should be square but I think the rest of what you said sounds fine. Would be interested to hear what someone more qualified would have to say though. 

[SM3091]

Blairbob, yes I ahave seen both those videos. But I'm talking about strides in front support. The first video addresses a different part of a scissor. But I get the points he's making. If I watch the second video closely, his hips do turn in his shears, so I think I'll use that as the standard for now. 

 

scmallwood, thanks for your input. The reason I ask, is because I'm 6'6'', and every small mistake looks much much worse owing to longer limbs. So, even if I have the same amount of pike a shorter athlete has, it would look significantly worse when I do it. So I just wanted to have the right technique to work on. 

[Christo Smallwood]

I know what you mean, being a longer gymnast is hard!