Starting with gymnastics type training

[Kasper Ellefsen Ellefsen]

Hi

 

I am member at the site (bin reading it for some time now), so I'll just start off with quick summary of my training background:

• I never really trained much when I was younger, but I have always bin active and never really out of shape
• After beginning at university I started with some basic strength training
• This training evolved into more of a powerlifting regimen
• The last year I have bin doing crossfit, though through this, I got introduced to gymnastics which for me had much more of an appeal
• I am now getting professional gymnastics lessons once a week, though I am still a newbie at mostly everything gymnastics have to offer

I have bin plpaying around a bit with gymnastics, and have bin able to do a couple of more complex exercises (advanced tuck FL for about 30 sec, a straddle BL for 10sec, a tuck planche for 15s++), though I feel like I am in need of a better foundation to avoid injuring myself. As the name implies, foundation one seems like a good fit for my needs. I have seen the rough outline of the program at a friends, though I do however have a couple of questions before I invest in the foundation series myself:

• I'm used to training 5-6days a week, so I was thinking of going for the 5-days a week template. However, is it still doable to do some of my olympic weightlifting training whenever I feel like I have the extra energy? In which case I would do F1 (and perhaps H1 too if I decide to invest in it:) )in the morning and implementing some olympic lifting 1-3 evenings a week  or so depending on how my body adapts to F1(will start off by just going F1 ofc).
• I recently had an issue with a bulging disc that gave my sciatic pain, and pike stretches seem to aggravate this badly. Even though I do olympic lifts ass-to-grass, I seriously lack hamstring and  groin/inner thigh flexibility, so I do need to work on it one way or another. I was recently attending a seminar with Ido Portal, and he showed a couple of good ways to work on hamstring flexibility. Is this something I could be doing instead untill my lower back/spinal stability issue is settled? Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated:)
• With regards to progressions in F1, I have tried some of them and even though I had no problem doing a lot of the later progressions with the required time/reps, I feel like I would do myself good by starting more "from scratch". Would it be a good idea to start F1 from week 6 at the first two progressions, and then start at week 1 from the 3.? (Which is where the first exercise I cant do the full week 11 progression is)

Looking forward to getting a systematic start at this, so as soon as I feel confident in where I am going, I will start on my journey to concour the foundation series:D

 

 

Regards from the North!
​

[Mikkel Ravn]

Hello!

 

You can certainly mix F1 with other types of exercise though I highly doubt that you will want to once the volume in F1 really picks up - It tends to work you quite hard on its own, particularly on a five day schedule. I think that a lot of us have had the same beginner anxiety as you: will F1 be enough to keep my gains, will the high volume make look like an anorexic long distance runner? For most of us in here, we've just stopped worrying about it. It's an academic question - If you follow the reps and timing and don't faff about, you are getting a more than adequate workout that will set you up for physical development in both the short and long term.

 

Don't know about your bulging disc.

 

About the progressions, you simply test your ability whenever you encounter a new pair of strength/mobility exercises. If you can demonstrate mastery (self criticism is key), move onto the next, harder one. Within 1-2 weeks, you will be at a level that is challenging and productive for you. You will probably be at different levels in the different exercise tracks, and that is perfectly fine, as long as you make sure to keep deload weeks in sync.

[Joshua Slocum]

Most people will find that the four times a week schedule is most productive. It's not a matter of how often you *can* workout: it's a matter of optimizing workout frequency vs recovery time. In general it's best to start low and gradually increase your volume when you 're sure it'll be useful.

You're correct that starting from the beginning is a good idea . Foundation is not about just getting to the end: it's about mastering all the PE's, SE's and iM's. Each exercise works different muscles, different flexibility and different patterns of movement. However, the flip side of this is that you should move past exercises you can already do. So if you can do an exercise and it's iM for the proscribed sets/reps with perfect form and no rest, then you should move on to the next exercise. However, you should make sure to actually check that you can do this for any given exercise; don't simply assume that you can.

With regards to the spine: hamstring flexibility is very important, so do what you can for now. However, note that the pike position is crucial for the manna progressions, so make sure to be diligent about nursing your spine back to full health.

[Connor Davies]

While you're doing your lifts ATG, it's possible you have the dreaded "butt wink" and this may have lead to your herniated disk.  I've come to realise that ATG squats are not always the best option, especially if there are mobility deficits.

 

There's no reason at all not to do olympic lifts as well as F1.  I'd recommend you follow the 4 day a week schedule and pencil in O-lifts on the first rest day at the end of the week.  I use this as my catch all day to work on anything I think needs improving (at the moment, long distance running and burpee form work.)

 

As Ravn said you need to test how well you can do at the mastery sets for each exercise, then figure out what week you need to be on based on that.

[Kasper Ellefsen Ellefsen]

Hello!

 

You can certainly mix F1 with other types of exercise though I highly doubt that you will want to once the volume in F1 really picks up - It tends to work you quite hard on its own, particularly on a five day schedule. I think that a lot of us have had the same beginner anxiety as you: will F1 be enough to keep my gains, will the high volume make look like an anorexic long distance runner? For most of us in here, we've just stopped worrying about it. It's an academic question - If you follow the reps and timing and don't faff about, you are getting a more than adequate workout that will set you up for physical development in both the short and long term.

 

Don't know about your bulging disc.

 

About the progressions, you simply test your ability whenever you encounter a new pair of strength/mobility exercises. If you can demonstrate mastery (self criticism is key), move onto the next, harder one. Within 1-2 weeks, you will be at a level that is challenging and productive for you. You will probably be at different levels in the different exercise tracks, and that is perfectly fine, as long as you make sure to keep deload weeks in sync.

 

Hehe, seems like you hit the nail on the head! I might be a little too worried about something that isnt really  a problem. Based on my background this is new territory for me. New and exciting:)

That makes a lot of sense. Syncing up with the deload weeks solves most of my question about how to progress! I will do as you recommend, and F1 does too I believe, and use the first weeks simply to test the progressions to establish where I am at.

Most people will find that the four times a week schedule is most productive. It's not a matter of how often you *can* workout: it's a matter of optimizing workout frequency vs recovery time. In general it's best to start low and gradually increase your volume when you 're sure it'll be useful.

You're correct that starting from the beginning is a good idea . Foundation is not about just getting to the end: it's about mastering all the PE's, SE's and iM's. Each exercise works different muscles, different flexibility and different patterns of movement. However, the flip side of this is that you should move past exercises you can already do. So if you can do an exercise and it's iM for the proscribed sets/reps with perfect form and no rest, then you should move on to the next exercise. However, you should make sure to actually check that you can do this for any given exercise; don't simply assume that you can.

With regards to the spine: hamstring flexibility is very important, so do what you can for now. However, note that the pike position is crucial for the manna progressions, so make sure to be diligent about nursing your spine back to full health.

Even though I am a high believer in high frequency training, I am en even bigger beiever in propper progress and adaptation to such training. I guess I have to check my ego and go for a four times a week protocol at first!

 

I intent on seeing my physiotherapist again for a followup and will ask her spessifically on how to address this! 

 

While you're doing your lifts ATG, it's possible you have the dreaded "butt wink" and this may have lead to your herniated disk.  I've come to realise that ATG squats are not always the best option, especially if there are mobility deficits.

 

There's no reason at all not to do olympic lifts as well as F1.  I'd recommend you follow the 4 day a week schedule and pencil in O-lifts on the first rest day at the end of the week.  I use this as my catch all day to work on anything I think needs improving (at the moment, long distance running and burpee form work.)

 

As Ravn said you need to test how well you can do at the mastery sets for each exercise, then figure out what week you need to be on based on that.

One would be inclined to believe that, but I have had my form checked by multiple olympic coaches (and amature lifters), without anyone seeing a sign of buttwink. I used to have a bit of an overexagerated anterior tilt in the pelvis, and by working on bracing my core better my spine straightened out more and improved my form. Not saying that you are wrong, just saying that it seems unlikely based on what I have experienced. As you might still be onto something, I'll make sure to get some fresh footage of myself the next time I do any front squating or oly-lifting to ensure everything stays tight:)

 

Your way of implementing "personal work time" sounds like a good way of going about it. Will give it a shot after I have really gotten into the F1 work.

 

 

 

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A big thank you too all of your answers!  A lot of my questions might seem a bit too obvious, but knowing what is best to one self has a large subjective component that is hard to ignore. Getting some external verification helps by leaps and bounds.

 

To summerize a short to-do list:

1. Purchase the full foundation series (Going to keep my bussy for years to come:p)
2. See the physio to set up a proper rehab plan to be able to do pike stretches (Thinking of maybe opening a thread about what people like to do when I'm done reading everything that is written there about it already. Though will probably have to postprone that a bit as I have a tone of assignments with regards to my masters degree atm)
3. Establish my current level under strict control of form.
4. Get started with a 4 days a week routine, and make sure to get adequate rest

Any further questions in regards to F1 I guess I will post in the F1 subforum as that seems more propper.

If anyone has anything else to add, I am allways ready to be enlightened:)

 

Once more, thanks a bunch for all the answers!