Questions on F1? Is it right for me?

[Ryan Graham]

Hi everyone,
 

I'm 19, a student and joined the site in Jan 2013 looking for gymnastic stuff to help with Crossfit (good old crossfit huh?) but ended up never posting or really visiting.

 

Anyway after stopping crossfit I've been looking for a new way of training and came back onto the site where I found the new Foundation series which I'm thinking of buying, but before I do I have a few questions hopefully that can be answered first..

 

1. I had an ACL surgery last year and while I'm fully rehabbed and back into full sports (soccer) I'm wondering will the leg work in the program strengthen my muscles, ligaments and tendons in my legs to reduce the chances of injury again? And will there be enough legwork for this?

 

2. Will the programme have carryover and benefits to my sport itself? As I said I play football (Soccer to you) and so would hope any training will help me in the sport.

 

 

3. I know the course has a lot of mobility work, I'm just wondering if ankle mobility is included? I ask because I know I have poor ankle mobility which had been a problem previously with squat depth, and I know while there's leg work that the majority of the programme will be upper body focused?

 

4. Lastly, and a bit ashamedly, will the programme have a big effect on my physique? and is there general timeframes? I know it shouldn't matter, form follows function, a good body is a product of a good lifestyle and that but as a college student with a social life too looking good does come into it a bit... I know nutrition is probably the biggest factor in body fat but what kind of effect will the programme have on my muscles and body, especially being a 'foundation' programme?

 

 

Cheers for any help/replies

[Connor Davies]

I'll just leave this here.

 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/13865-thanks-coach-quick-review-of-f-vs-local-cf-box/

[Klemen Bobnar]

I'll just leave this here.

 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/13865-thanks-coach-quick-review-of-f-vs-local-cf-box/

How about a "Too advanced; don't have permission" for people still on F1?

[Ryan Graham]

Bipocni, can't access that link as it's from the F2 forum

[Brian Li]

I'll just leave this here.

 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/13865-thanks-coach-quick-review-of-f-vs-local-cf-box/

The OP needs F2 to view that page.

[Coach Sommer]

As there is nothing proprietary in the post, the following is the initial post by Jon Douglas that was referenced in the link above:

"Hi all,

I decided to drop into a local Crossfit box today with a friend, Bring a Friend day with proceeds to Philippines aid.

I walked in feeling a bit nervous-- all these 'motivational' pics of people vomiting, lying on the floor in spreading pools of sweat... I train by myself here, so I assumed that I was about to be pushed harder than ever before. And the fact is, I'm only halfway through Foundation-- barely an intermediate beginner by GST standards.

Warmup was a jog up and down the block (maybe 100m? Nothing) and a couple stretches. Hip flexor, some squats, some unweighted windmills.

4x for time

8 Clean & squat (60kg)

11 partner pushups (in time, touching alternate hands at the top-- basically 2 seconds at the bottom, concentric, 2 seconds at top, negative, repeat)

13 jumping pullups (from standing on box)

Now granted, this was a Bring a Friend thing so they wanted to keep it simple and accessible to everyone. I doubt this is representative of their usual workload. We were told to split up the load between ourselves and a partner however we wanted. My partner and I decided we were men dammit and did the whole thing each (put us finishing last, but with substantially more volume). My technique was god-awful-- I couldn't get the hang of the clean to squat, so I gave up and just started curling the weight then squatting it-- I was 3x8 in before I realised I was curling sets of 60kg without struggling. When we finished, it was like flicking off a switch-- no cooldown, mobility, prehab etc-- people just started talking in groups and wandering off.

That WoD was lighter than my warmup, yet there were people on the floor, there was puffing and panting and some sweat pools. I finished without breathing hard and honestly was looking for the real workout. Given that someone like me, barely on the radar by the standards of this forum let alone the wide world of gymnastics, could walk in and smoke everyone in there... that was kind of embarrassing. I was so restless I borrowed their (nice comfy wooden) rings to do some ring strength sets afterwards. When I demo'd a couple of slow muscle ups and curls from (not to) shoulderstand, I actually had jaws drop. Yet people were high-fiving, sipping their coconut water, etc...

It made me stop and think. I'm not very strong and I know my (current) limitations. Yet by the standards of this gym, I was written off with 'oh, he's a gymnast' as if the normal rules or measures of strength simply didn't apply to me. How in the world do people train that this minor level of str is so mindblowing? Why aren't people hitting the weights etc keeping up with me? How can people go to a gym week after week for a couple of years, sincerely push themselves, and yet have trouble completing *that* WoD as rx'd? Even assuming they trained their asses off Thurs and Fri and thus earned a light one today, so did I-- completely as normal for me, BJJ on Thurs night too, this was my rest day. But we did not look the same when we finished!

This quote from BTGB;

How strong is it possible to become with gymnastics exercises?

Amazingly strong. In fact I would go so far as to say, done correctly, far

stronger than someone who had trained for the same amount of time with free

weights.

Coach, thanks for putting me on the right track."

[Jon Douglas]

I'll just leave this follow up here to head off any repeated argument... (slightly edited for relevance)

1) Just because people haven't certified doesn't mean they aren't strong. Im a beginner, and very excited to move on, but plenty of people here leave me for dead.

2) The quote is from Coach, and refers to the fact that across the broad range of training modalities (vertical jump, max str, end, etc) his experience is that GST covers them better than any other (single) protocol. I agree. If you don't, that's cool too. I don't know enough about elite level training to argue over this, but i don't think it would be difficult to find elite athletes who transitioned to specific training for their sport with a strong gymnastics foundation. If you want to argue extreme examples you will need to argue them with someone who has experience with elite GST 

3) Yes, my BJJ has improved a lot even though Im to busy atm to train as much as I want to. I credit smarter body mechanics, joint prep and active flexibility.

4) I was one of three first timers in a class of 21. The rest ranged from a few months (because they'd done all their fundamental classes etc) to a couple years. About half male half female.

5) I don't come on here to boast, and I don't accept things with my eyes closed. If I wasn't benefiting from GST, wasn't making the best overall return on my time and effort investment, I would be looking for something else. This synergises with my other physical pursuits and stands up to every test I put it to-- no I am not an elite lifter, it doesn't interest me, but I can surf for hours, roll BJJ, decide to go for a run or a stomp and get bored before I get winded, etc. I hope my genuine surprise at what I am slowly becoming capable of, and my desire to share my excitement is comingle through.

6) I just thought CF would be an interesting challenge/playtime and the most likely way to find people who were stronger than me at GST. They hit the weights hard, but i think there were also a lot of people there who liked feeling like big fish, and they seemed very grateful to be able to chalk it up to 'oh, he's a gymnast'

[Joshua Slocum]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm 19, a student and joined the site in Jan 2013 looking for gymnastic stuff to help with Crossfit (good old crossfit huh?) but ended up never posting or really visiting.

 

Anyway after stopping crossfit I've been looking for a new way of training and came back onto the site where I found the new Foundation series which I'm thinking of buying, but before I do I have a few questions hopefully that can be answered first..

 

1. I had an ACL surgery last year and while I'm fully rehabbed and back into full sports (soccer) I'm wondering will the leg work in the program strengthen my muscles, ligaments and tendons in my legs to reduce the chances of injury again? And will there be enough legwork for this?

 

2. Will the programme have carryover and benefits to my sport itself? As I said I play football (Soccer to you) and so would hope any training will help me in the sport.

 

 

3. I know the course has a lot of mobility work, I'm just wondering if ankle mobility is included? I ask because I know I have poor ankle mobility which had been a problem previously with squat depth, and I know while there's leg work that the majority of the programme will be upper body focused?

 

4. Lastly, and a bit ashamedly, will the programme have a big effect on my physique? and is there general timeframes? I know it shouldn't matter, form follows function, a good body is a product of a good lifestyle and that but as a college student with a social life too looking good does come into it a bit... I know nutrition is probably the biggest factor in body fat but what kind of effect will the programme have on my muscles and body, especially being a 'foundation' programme?

 

 

Cheers for any help/replies

1. There is much legwork in the Foundation series. It is progressive in nature, so it should be good for building strong muscles and connective tissue and generally rehabilitating your leg. It is important however, that you don't do any exercises that hurt.

 

2. It will have many benefits. You'll find your strength and agility is greatly improved, as well as your overall body awareness and coordination. All of the upper body work might be more than strictly necessary for a footballer, but it's certainly not going to hurt.

 

3. There is a good deal of ankle mobility. 

 

4. Caring about your physical appearance is nothing to be ashamed of! GB will give you an amazing physique if you stick with the program. You'll see consistent but gradual changes take place over the course of several years. Supplementing the program with cardio work (which you'll have in spades as a footballer) and good nutrition will give you the quickest results. 

[Ryan Graham]

Guys thanks very much for the replies. Decided to take the plunge and get the F1 and H1 programmes together. Fully commited to improving my athletic performance across the board with GST for the foreseeable future.

 

Buying the 2 courses right now so I will be seeing you all in the forums!

 

Cheers

[Connor Davies]

How about a "Too advanced; don't have permission" for people still on F1?

 

Bipocni, can't access that link as it's from the F2 forum

 

The OP needs F2 to view that page.

Oops.

[Jon Douglas]

Now that that's in a more public forum I feel I need to qualify my comments a little for people who may not take my tone or recognise that I am more than happy to be disproved or disagreed with.

I enjoyed the place. It sends a healthy and positive message and puts safety first. I went in with an open mind and gave it an honest shot, and was underwhelmed by the group response to what I see as an absurdly low workload and inadequate results for the effort and $20 drop-in price tag.

Im sure they and crossfit as a whole produce some great athletes, but what I saw firsthand of people with a comparable training background to myself did not impress me. I could have been politer I admit but i stand by the opinions in my post. It was a fun experiment though.

Goes without saying i don't speak for gb.com in any way also.

[Connor Davies]

Now that that's in a more public forum I feel I need to qualify my comments a little for people who may not take my tone or recognise that I am more than happy to be disproved or disagreed with.

I enjoyed the place. It sends a healthy and positive message and puts safety first. I went in with an open mind and gave it an honest shot, and was underwhelmed by the group response to what I see as an absurdly low workload and inadequate results for the effort and $20 drop-in price tag.

Im sure they and crossfit as a whole produce some great athletes, but what I saw firsthand of people with a comparable training background to myself did not impress me. I could have been politer I admit but i stand by the opinions in my post. It was a fun experiment though.

Goes without saying i don't speak for gb.com in any way also.

I think some people have been taking this the wrong way.  I read it as "I've been training pretty consistently, and I tried something the other day which I found fairly easy."

 

Crossfit can be many things, but they seem to have an almost pathological rejection of the kind of slow, systematic build up that we train in the GB style.  See the focus on WOD's and random exercise selection, designed to shock the system, versus progressive calisthenics with the goal of laying a Foundation.....

 

I'm not trying to say that what Crossfit does is a bad thing (although I do love to bash crossfit) but I do firmly believe that you can't get better at everything all at once by doing everything all at once.  In my own personal experience, consistency is the most vital ingredient.  I have to wonder how much better these people would perform if they dedicated their time to some focused training.

 

Also, and something I feel needs to be pointed out, is that the workout you were asked to perform was not particularly challenging.  You had to do what, 44 pushups?  And they were clearly asking you to clean a weight that you didn't actually need to clean, so I doubt that helped.  As you may have noticed before, doing things with the proper technique can be a lot more difficult than half assing them, but also if you were really cleaning a challenging weight you wouldn't have been able to curl it.  I'd love it if you could go back, learn the technique and then see how much you can clean for real.....

[Jon Douglas]

I think some people have been taking this the wrong way.  I read it as "I've been training pretty consistently, and I tried something the other day which I found fairly easy."

 

Crossfit can be many things, but they seem to have an almost pathological rejection of the kind of slow, systematic build up that we train in the GB style.  See the focus on WOD's and random exercise selection, designed to shock the system, versus progressive calisthenics with the goal of laying a Foundation.....

 

I'm not trying to say that what Crossfit does is a bad thing (although I do love to bash crossfit) but I do firmly believe that you can't get better at everything all at once by doing everything all at once.  In my own personal experience, consistency is the most vital ingredient.  I have to wonder how much better these people would perform if they dedicated their time to some focused training.

 

Also, and something I feel needs to be pointed out, is that the workout you were asked to perform was not particularly challenging.  You had to do what, 44 pushups?  And they were clearly asking you to clean a weight that you didn't actually need to clean, so I doubt that helped.  As you may have noticed before, doing things with the proper technique can be a lot more difficult than half assing them, but also if you were really cleaning a challenging weight you wouldn't have been able to curl it.  I'd love it if you could go back, learn the technique and then see how much you can clean for real.....

Hey, I had fun so it was a nett win for me even if I don't go back. Some people may just want a buzz and some socialising, and it would be a funny world if were were all alike.

 

I think I've said everything I want to; it's not right to comment on a larger scale than my direct experience. I don't know or understand CF methodology enough to pass any judgement stronger than an opinion and the fact is there are some objectively impressive athletes, much stronger than me, who successfully follow that methodology. So I'll get my head down and back to my own training now which is also fun.

 

(Just as an aside, several people approached after the class asking about GST fundamentals training, for which I am totally up. All in it together ).

[Marios Roussos]

I think it's important to keep in mind that Jon is a little bit of a mutant. Although I believe that anyone that achieves his level of GST would be able to do what he did, most of us would need more than 9 months of Foundation to get there. From what I recall, when Jon started the Foundation program back in February, he was already able to master all elements of F1 except for maybe RC/PE6 which incidentally didn't take him much time to master. This should tell you the level of strength and mobility he started Foundation with.

 

After 9 months, I'm still waiting to get to the level he started at, but I'm getting closer every day

 

Thanks for sharing Jon.

[Jon Douglas]

I think it's important to keep in mind that Jon is a little bit of a mutant. Although I believe that anyone that achieves his level of GST would be able to do what he did, most of us would need more than 9 months of Foundation to get there. From what I recall, when Jon started the Foundation program back in February, he was already able to master all elements of F1 except for maybe RC/PE6 which incidentally didn't take him much time to master. This should tell you the level of strength and mobility he started Foundation with.

After 9 months, I'm still waiting to get to the level he started at, but I'm getting closer every day

Thanks for sharing Jon.

I disagree with you, but i appreciate the compliment

[Connor Davies]

I disagree with you, but i appreciate the compliment

Can't you do inverted curls?  How is that human?

 

Definitely a mutant....

[Keilani Gutierrez]

Can't you do inverted curls? How is that human?

Definitely a mutant....

what he meant is that he mastered "some" of the F1 movements because he had a year or so of basics under his belt and F series helped refine it to something useable. judging from someone -starting- their basics for around a year on F will eventually be able to have a similar base but with the technical refinement of what F offers

also, he's stubborn as all hell, i don't think we've talked a day where a conversation didnt have to do with something related to GST or kung fu because it had some relevance to that days work or something i felt i needed guidance or pointers in.

we can all learn from that and I speak for myself when I say that it's rubbed off some and it shows in my day to day. i only blame myself for not having adopted that frame of mind sooner.

(something i heard from a Xingi Quan practitioner was this: if you skip one day of training, you skip 10.)

if you want to be like coaches athletes, you have to train like coaches athletes and for me, thats 4 days a week of dedicated focus, no more, and just as importantly, no less

[Jon Douglas]

also, he's stubborn as all hell,