Gymnastics & Posterior Chain Strength

[Scott Pelton-Stroud]

So I have become confused about the place of Posterior Chain Strength in Gymnastics.

 

On one hand, from reading just the introduction of BtGB, one would notice Coach Sommer's respectable deadlift from pure GST--not to mention his student JJ's triple bodyweight deadlift. This implies pretty commendable posterior chain strength. I would assume that positions like the Back Lever, Planche, and Maltese would be main contributors to such strength.

 

On the other hand, as I recently learned, it is possible to achieve a Maltese and still have weaknesses in the posterior chain. I also read some old threads in this forum where people stated that gymnasts tend to be lacking in posterior chain strength.

 

Now that last comment I do not believe, as no one pulls off a double to triple bodyweight deadlift with significantly lacking posterior chain strength. But it would seem that the height of that strength does not come from a Maltese.

 

So my question is: Where do gymnasts get it from? Are positions like the Planche and Back lever somehow harder on the posterior chain than a Maltese? Or does it come from bridges & limbers & acrobatic skills? Is there something else I'm missing?

 

Please enlighten a newbie! 

[Brian Li]

Planche, back lever, and maltese use the same amount of posterior chain strength. Of course just being able to do those won't give you a 2X/3X BW deadlift on the first try. Gymnast also do a lot of leg workouts too for tumbling.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

as you're not a stranger to it, anything that contracts your posterior chain will develop gains in strength. if you own Foundation 1-4, you can see how it's targeted and also if you look in BtGB, you'll see how Coach undergoes beginning oblique and lower back prep for side lever.

the other side is how you brace the spine/ flex the lumbar because you can be sacrificing a lot of potential for power development, it's an extremely interesting conversation and I seriously wish i could contribute more but i lack the know-how.

[Jon Douglas]

Tumbling and dynamic strength for lower back, glute and leg strength

[Coach Sommer]

Gymnasts superior posterior strength is the result of their leg and dynamic strength work.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Marios Roussos]

I can't wait to sink my teeth into the Movement series...

[Alan Tseng]

All the movements you listed: maltese, planche, back lever are all anterior chain (though there is definitely posterior chain involvement)

Exercises like front lever, iron cross, etc would emphasize posterior chain more

[Keilani Gutierrez]

manna. even the mobility is scary

[Mats Trane]

  On 12/24/2013 at 3:26 AM, NoHiddenCosts said:

 

So my question is: Where do gymnasts get it from?

Please enlighten a newbie! 

From spending 20-25 hours a week in th gym.

[George Vere]

I have started deadlifting in the past 2 weeks and pulled 2 x bodyweight last week - I have done no tumbling, have only just finished the SLS work in F1. And I'm very much a beginner GST trainee. I just got the rest of the F series, can't wait to look at that. Movement as well.

[Karri Kytömaa]

I was somewhat puzzled about this myself but now that I saw what F4 includes, I have no doubt about how those 3xBW deadlifts happened

[Jake Lawrance]

You know, that is weird. 

 

It's just so hard to believe they can pull that off without specific training, but I was pulling 1.5x my body weight with no dead lift training prior, and before that I was just doing body weight exercises/Beginner gymnastic strength movements. Then again, if there is one thing I believe or sort of a self discovery is that you learn tension and there's very little 'abdominal weakness' for athletes but you rather just have to learn tension. Which makes me think that the tension that gymnasts use (which is a lot) probably has a very good carryover to weightlifting, so basically they've always got a 'strong stance' before lifting rather than floppy and relaxed stance.

 

^ Bit jumbled words there but it's Christmas Eve and I'm too excited 

[Alan Tseng]

  On 12/24/2013 at 10:39 PM, Jake Lawrance said:

You know, that is weird. 

 

It's just so hard to believe they can pull that off without specific training, but I was pulling 1.5x my body weight with no dead lift training prior, and before that I was just doing body weight exercises/Beginner gymnastic strength movements. Then again, if there is one thing I believe or sort of a self discovery is that you learn tension and there's very little 'abdominal weakness' for athletes but you rather just have to learn tension. Which makes me think that the tension that gymnasts use (which is a lot) probably has a very good carryover to weightlifting, so basically they've always got a 'strong stance' before lifting rather than floppy and relaxed stance.

 

^ Bit jumbled words there but it's Christmas Eve and I'm too excited 

Pavel Tsatsouline once said that even the very best only generates 50% of the tension from their muscles. He even has an entire book about muscular tension called The Naked Warrior

[Scott Pelton-Stroud]

  On 12/24/2013 at 6:23 AM, Hmms said:

All the movements you listed: maltese, planche, back lever are all anterior chain (though there is definitely posterior chain involvement)

Exercises like front lever, iron cross, etc would emphasize posterior chain more

Hmm. I understand that the anterior upper body is obviously stressed in those positions, but I figured supporting a straight body with back upwards would also strongly recruit the posterior chain. I guess I'll find out when I actually achieve them.

 

  On 12/24/2013 at 10:05 AM, Mats Trane said:

From spending 20-25 hours a week in th gym.

Aha! But I feel like the bodybuilders with the skinny waists aren't pulling 3x BW deadlifts...

 

  On 12/24/2013 at 10:20 AM, Hercules said:

I have started deadlifting in the past 2 weeks and pulled 2 x bodyweight last week - I have done no tumbling, have only just finished the SLS work in F1. And I'm very much a beginner GST trainee. I just got the rest of the F series, can't wait to look at that. Movement as well.

That's awesome! I'm interested to give my deadlift another go now, too. Haven't pulled in almost a year.

  On 12/24/2013 at 4:53 AM, Coach Sommer said:

Gymnasts superior posterior strength is the result of their leg and dynamic strength work.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

As if I wasn't already excited enough for M series...

[Joshua Slocum]

Also note that while my posterior chain may be weak compared to JJ's, it's not weak in an absolute sense. Today I deadlifted 400# - about 2.3x bodyweight. I would attribute that mostly to dynamic work/tumbling. 

 

For me the issue with ABH was a matter of an overly tight anterior chain and lack of endurance in the posterior chain. 

[Scott Pelton-Stroud]

  On 12/25/2013 at 7:43 PM, Joshua Slocum said:

For me the issue with ABH was a matter of an overly tight anterior chain and lack of endurance in the posterior chain. 

Thank you for that clarification, Josh! And congratulations on your deadlift!