Sinom Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 A couple of days ago I joined my brother in a traditional gym to do some deadlifts. And I can only conclude that this is one of the best exercises I have ever tried. I have trained calisthenics and gymnastics for about 1.5 year now, and so far I have had the attitude that anything you can train with weights, we can do equally good or better with bodyweight…. However do we really have anything to match deadlifts? It seems to activate so many muscles in the posterior chain, and more specific it really hits the lower back brutally, something that seems to lack in my bodyweight training. I have not followed the Foundation programme, so it might be my specific training, but compared to my friends that train weights, my lower back does not seem very strong. From my training, the exercises that targets the lower back the most I think is arch holds, arch raises, headstand leg lifts and the back lever. If you have any other execises that hits the lower back hard, let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Davies Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Back limbers train the spinal cord pretty good, and GHR's will hit the glutes and hamstrings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piotr Ochocki Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Deadlift another body . Also just as a curiosity (I don't recommend these to you).https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/13344-arch-body-hold-next-level/ Not sure if you have access to F3 forum, quite an interesting conversation there that also touched deadlift matters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Long Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Press to handstand? Not exactly the same thing but from what I understand that is one hell of an exercise. Could even attach ankle weights to make it more interesting ( of course this is something you build up to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinom Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ausswe,Press to handstand is awesome, but I wont fatigue first in the lower back, so that wont do it for me. Weighted headstand leg lifts might do the trick though. Will experiment a bit with that. Piotro, that video is insane! Have tried a bit with weighted arch holds, but with straight arms and much much lower weights. It is an alternative I guess, but still no match for the deadlift. I dont have access to any other forum than the open. Biponcni I will try your suggestions when I have the chance! Btw, what do you guys think of excersises like superman pushups or standing ab wheel? They burn the lower back for sure, but for me they come also with lower back pain, so I have stopped using them altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Long Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If you're are getting lower back pain from ab wheel then your not strong enough to be doing it you should be feeling it in your abs and tbh there is better exercises in the foundation series. Same goes for superman push ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 No. Weighted planks and arch holds are kind of an interesting but I havent figured how to load more than 2 25 kg by myself on the floor. Tumbling and support swings on PB and tap swings on rings are pretty much your options besides inverted leg lifts or weighted back extensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinom Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ausswe, you might be right, although I'm not sure more ab strength would help my ab wheel or superman-pushup. My calistenics type of training focuses a lot on ab strenght, but as I said earlier, getting proper lower back strength has been more challenging. To be honest I suspect I might have developed some imbalances from my current training. Blairbob, thanks for the tip, but for now I think I will just add deadlifts in my routine since it seems to have good synergies to my programme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Your problems with the ab wheel stem from a lack of PPT. Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinom Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 PPT= Posterior pelvic tilt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Davies Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinom Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 That would make sense I guess. I have some posture issues, and probably an anterior pelvic tilt in my natural posture. Working on PPT will probably be a good idea regardless of using the ab-wheel or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 As blairbob mentioned, lower back strength in GST comes mostly from dynamic work. You can develop a good baseline level of strength with bridges, arch body holds/rocks, arch-ups, reverse leg-lifts, etc. But really phenomenal performance comes from movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwan Haque Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Deadlifts are a really basic movement compared to most of the stuff done around here. Even if you don't train them, if you stick with GST properly, you'll be pulling respectable numbers on your first few sessions of deadlifting. I come to this conclusion because I did my first deadlift session ever today (I finally got a weights gym membership) and worked up to a 350lb single at 150lb BW. Its a meh deadlift, but it's my first time and I'm pretty weak: I can't even hold a straddle FL (I'm doing sets of tuck FL at the moment. Can't even hold adv tuck long and well enough to get much out of doing sets of it)I couldn't do a single clean rep of a natural GHR if my life depended on it (weak posterior chain)My form breaks pretty quick on tuck FL rows (can't keep my shoulders pulled back properly at the top of the movement. I'm still working regular feet supported rows at the moment)I can't do press handstandsMy arch body hold/rock times are pretty bad (weak posterior chain, and this is really really basic stuff)I'm not even thinking of proper dynamic/rings training at this stage, which is where the serious strength gains are made So, really, when you're strong by the standards they hold around here... you'll be able to deadlift plenty of weight I will admit deadlifting is pretty fun though, and I suppose it can't hurt to do a session once in a while to complement the GST. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinom Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 red 1392: 350 at 150 BW is very good, so congrats on that. And I totally understand what you are saying. Gymnastics training carry over very well to weights, and although I'm strong compared to most people at the gym, I can just come to GB to see how weak I really am! I think by the standards of this forum I will never be strong! Just look one post above you. His profile picture is a f!"#¤ malteese! =) My point with this post was basically to find out how gymnasts gets their lower back strenght, and it seems its a lot of dynamic work! A part of the training I must admit I have neglected a bit. But as you said, deadlifts are quite fun, so I will stick with that for now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Proulx Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I am sure once you really get into some serious gymnastic training there is little need to DL aside from setting PR once a week. I haven't Deadlifted since the summer, and since october have been doing strictly GB program, no weights, but decided to pull a few last night, since I was sick and didn't want to do GB half assed. Pulled 335 (most weight I have in the garage), and then pulled 265 for 5x5, not big numbers but not bad for a 5'6 145lb guy though, I bet in a year of GB I will be pulling 400+ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I might say it's not necessary for MAG but wouldn't believe that WAG gymnasts can get away from the DL. Their swing is not as dynamic in the tap like rings nor do they swing on pommel and PB. They cast a bit and yes they tumble as much if not more. You can use the DL as a simple works everything strength or use versions like the straight/stiff leg for lower back/glute/hamstring strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Davies Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 ^^^^ Blairbob likes to deadlift, and he actually coaches people, so that should give you some idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Pahl Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 What are MAG and WAG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 What are MAG and WAG?Men's artistic gymnastics and women's artistic gymnastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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