6.2 learning the planche

[Emirking Stillalive]

Hey, i'm suffering cold since yesterday, with stuffy nose and sore throat. But, I have promised you a new video, so there you go:

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=15ob70n%3E&s=8#.VOS6kPmG9Cg

Another one should have been from the better angle, but my friend cut me off accidentally.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2h35v89%3E&s=8#.VOS9afmG9Cg

I didn't push myself, i did not have the strenght, nor the power to do that, but my muscles were not sore. 

I will record a better video this weekend, when this illness goes away.

[Alexander Egebak]

Hey, i'm suffering cold since yesterday, with stuffy nose and sore throat. But, I have promised you a new video, so there you go:

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=15ob70n%3E&s=8#.VOS6kPmG9Cg

Another one should have been from the better angle, but my friend cut me off accidentally.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2h35v89%3E&s=8#.VOS9afmG9Cg

I didn't push myself, i did not have the strenght, nor the power to do that, but my muscles were not sore. 

I will record a better video this weekend, when this illness goes away.

You sack your back. It has to go higher. Your back has to have an angle of 90 degrees to your arms.

 

And stop filming party tricks. If anything film your real work sets. You need endurance work to let your connective tissue regenerate. Because it probably has not healed completely yet, even though you do not feel any pain.

[Emirking Stillalive]

You sack your back. It has to go higher. Your back has to have an angle of 90 degrees to your arms.

 

And stop filming party tricks. If anything film your real work sets. You need endurance work to let your connective tissue regenerate. Because it probably has not healed completely yet, even though you do not feel any pain.

Well, i was like if i do not film a video today, they will be saying i'm a liar once again. Since i'm suffering cold, i cannot give as much as i want to, try it youself, oh, well you would probably sit on a bed and wait for cold to go off.

But, i'm not here to argue with you about that. 

My shoulders are in line with my hips. Is not the back supposed to be straight in advanced tuck, if i lift my hips higher it feels much easier, and when i look at the video it looks wrong, i'm not parallel that way.

I wanna hear someone else comment my form.

[Jesus Rojas]

In my humble opinion your form in the first video looks pretty good. 

[Emirking Stillalive]

Alexander, maybe i'm wrong, but i thought that is what the advanced tuck planche form should look like.

Now, can you please post a picture, or a link, in a reply, with a advanced tuck with perfect form. Maybe i have a wrong picture in my head, just to clear that out, if i was wrong, accept my apology.

Edited February 18, 2015 by GORIZONT

[Alexander Egebak]

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/building-an-olympic-body-through-bodyweight-conditioning/

 

See pictures under tucked and adv. tuck planche. Notice arms/shoulder 90 degrees, back is not horizontal. I can only guess why it is some, but it seems harder on core and easier on shoulder and arms to do your variation.

 

We did not ask nor expect you to film again. Actually, we do not care much about that. But believe it or not, we do care about people's health, or at least I do. I am not criticizing you for working out while having a mild illness, I am criticizing you for going to hard considering your past injuries.

 

Again, I would like to line out the importance of endurance work post injury. It seems like that point washed away.

[Emirking Stillalive]

I have just seen a picture of that little boy on that link, this is what trainer says: While holding your hips shoulder high, try to extend your hips back behind you until your back is flat. The boy on that picture, had his hips on a higher level than his shoulders, it is pretty obvious. On my picture ypu can see my shoulders pretty much in line with my hips. 

And, yeah i rushed it a little bit, i just wanted to know if my form was right. Of course i can hold it longer, and i didn't train today, i just tried it two times, next time i will record my entire 4-5 sets of planche holds. That is it. Thanks anyways.

[Mark Plas]

Hi Gorizont,

 

According to the FIG guidelines the body line must not exceed 20° above parallel:

 

http://www.fig-aerobic.com/B-266-STRADDLE-PLANCHE_a695.html

 

I think ideally your body should be horizontal with the floor, which is what you are doing. To me your form looks very good.

[Alexander Egebak]

Flat back does not equal horizontal back.

 

Link provided is for straddle planches. But I cannot really comment further on that since I am not familiar with specific gymnastic skill execution standards.

 

We will need a professional opinion on this one I think.

[Jan Reipert]

i´m pretty sure there is no reason to tilt you advanced tuck planche upward to a steeper angle if you can hold it with a flat back at apropriate protraction at horizontal. you wouldnt call a 45° degree straddle planche better form than a horizontal one, nor would you do that with a full planche. so why should you do it with advanced tuck planches?

[Emirking Stillalive]

In my opinion, lifting hips higher can only reduce the tension on the shoulders, and activate different parts of the muscles. Since, the main gaol of planche is being parallel to the ground, why would you strenghten your muscles in different positions. And, i remember, several months ago, when i started with advanced tuck, my hips were higher than parallel, and as soon as i try to drop my hips for couple of inches, i feel much bigger pressure on my shoulders, i'm not able to push the ground as hard as i did in a higher position, which means that more protraction is needed. Another thing, by lifting hips higher, you reduce your bodylength and center of mass, by reducing that, you also reduce the intensity. The laws of physics. The longer the body, the bigger the force, and that is the main difference between handstand and planche. The shoulders, in planche position, have to exert, equal and oppostie toqrue to keep the body from undergoing rotational acceleration. Very important thing here is the angle between a body (horizontal) and the load (body weight). Since they are at 90 degrees, the cosine term is 1. The equation is: T=F*d*cos(angle). So, if your body goes a little bit vertical cosine is less than 1, which means that for 20 degress above horizontal, force on the shoulders is about 18% smaller than in parallel, only because of that angle, plus it is smaller because of the distance between the shoulder and the center of mass (d).

Edited February 19, 2015 by GORIZONT

[Emirking Stillalive]

Yesterday: front lever adv. tuck 2x12 seconds, 1x10 seconds. Today planche adv tuck 1x12,1x10,1x9 seconds.

I had a tough day on faculty, had an exam in afternoon, but i had no muscle soreness, and that is the most important factor for me.

This time i bring my hips just a little bit higher. http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=1hdp4h%3E&s=8#.VOuD9PmG9Cg

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2nipqfq%3E&s=8#.VOuEsvmG9CgThird hold was pretty much the same, i put my headphones on to give me some more motivation...

You can say 10 seconds is not enough for advanced tuck, but the thing is, how would you begin working on advanced tuck right after basic tuck and expect to push 20 seconds, that is ridiculous...

I remember when i began with half lay, i wasn't able to hold advanced tuck 3 times at more then 10 seconds with this form. My back was rounded, and i wasn't focused on depressing my shoulders, i was only protracting at that time. Nowadays i do both at the same time.

I made some progress with my weak spots, now i'm able to do a shoulder dislocations with a stick without pain, i'm also working on some other flexibility drills such as bridges etc...

My next clip will be around march 15-th, i will post my progress video, still just holding things. And on 15th of april i will maxout on straddle planche, and see what happens.

Edited February 23, 2015 by GORIZONT

[Alexander Egebak]

Sorry for bothering you again. This is a reminder that you really need that endurance work.

 

" but i had no muscle soreness, and that is the most important factor for me"'

Injuries do not care about your feelings, in fact they only want to hurt you.

I will not reply in this thread again and will not encourage you in your "destructive" training, where your ego is more important than the advice of some of the best people in the field giving advice for free. Last time you did not listen, you were hurt. Next injury is only a matter of time. You have shown that you are not yet done pleasing your ego, and I think you really need to bite the dust in order for you to realize your faults.

 

"And on 15th april i will maxout on straddle planche, and see what happens."

I mean come on, you cannot advance in strength within months of your previous injury without dramatically increasing risk of injury again. Do prehab or do rehab, your choice.

 

That is all I have to say.

[Jesus Rojas]

Above clips both looks good to me, try to build up from there until you hit at least the 30s mark for a couple of sets. On the other hand remember that muscle soreness is not a good indicator to follow, because it has nothing to do with tendons, I think you need to go through the process of overload,load and under-load, to make sure your tendons,ligaments, etc, are catching up your muscles and are at the same ratio. Another thing that I don't support is to put deadlines like "And on 15th april i will maxout on straddle planche, and see what happens." because you would have the temptation to rush, and also you could lie yourself holding a poorly straddle planche, If I were you, instead I would rather be focusing on achieve clean form and build up the basics carefully.

[Emirking Stillalive]

Ok, this is the thing, i felt so bad when i got injured. All your advices came true at that point. And i wasn't doing SSC, i was doing my shitty program i was talking about before, like full planche negatives, half lay try outs, advanced tuck wide planche, etc. And the day i got injured i was working on slippery floor, but i wasn't doing basic tuck as i said, i was doing advanced wide plache tuck with the hardest possible grip, and it snapped pretty easily tho.

I didn't have enough courrage to tell you that i got injured from that, i thought you will just throw me away, like thats it, there is no more hope for this man, he is lost forever.

I do not feel anything really, both shoulders have same power in my head, no difference what so ever. I was doing basic tuck 30+ seconds before this, i didn't just jump right in as i said. And you can see through clips that i'm finally doing what i was supposed to do before i got injured. And yeah setting deadlines is kind of stupid, it is just a mindset that will push me to create new limits. Of course, i'm not going to try straddle planche before i reach under load phase, i have to do it right this time. I will not post anymore about this theme,

just to clear this out. I will keep working on advanced tuck planche with enough rest.

Edited February 23, 2015 by GORIZONT

[Emirking Stillalive]

I'm sad to say this, but i finally decided to quit. There are too many factors. First of all, my shoulder is not fully healed yet. I can do planche holds with no pain, but i cannot do planche push ups. I cannot hang on a pull up bar and elevate my shoulders, i cannot even put myself in a position to try a human fleg, that hurts unbealiveably. On the other hand, my main goal was to learn maltese, now i'm convinced it is impossible for someone with my proportions to learn that - 188cm 82kg. Back in those days before injury, whenever i tried full planche, it felt 5 times more difficult than straddle, almost impossible in my eyes.

I also thinks my shoulders are done, they will never fully recover from this injury, i did not do the right thing, i should have rested for 2-3 months completely. But then, i would have to start from scratch. I'm just tired of all of this, phisically and mentally.

I will strat bulking up, going to the gym everyday, work on my body and mucles. The most important thing, at the end of the day, is to be healthy and to keep training something you can do without any future issues.

I'm pretty sure i would injure my shoulders once again in future with planche, and that would be the end for everything.

I tired hard, and i failed. Last thing i want is to injure even worse so i cannot do anything with my shoulders for the rest of my life.

But, it does not mean it is impossible to learn planche with my height. I still believe it is possible, so if there is someone out there who works on it, good luck with it.

Good bye everyone, i'm done with this.

[Dylan Robertson]

The stupidity in this thread is actually Unbelievable. Get a job, (you're in college, go work at the nearby Fast Food Restaurant), after this save up money to start working on Foundation, Handstand, and Stretch. FOLLOW THE DAMN PROGRAM. Do not try to implement you own crap, because as you have seen, it will not work. Coach Sommer made the series like that for a reason. It is the best possible way to train with the lowest risk of injury. Do not move on from on exercise until the mastery sets can be completed consistently. That's all I have to say, if you are unwilling to follow these simple steps given to you, then do not come back.

[Léo Aïtoulha]

Before starting GST I did 2 years of street workout. At the end I had the same issues you have today. I could say that my case was even worse. I had (starting with the worst) :

- Chronic proximal biceps tendonitis (shoulder joint) because of weighted Pull-Ups and Front Lever while I was not ready for it

- Chronic distal biceps tendonitis (elbow joint) because of supinated Back Lever with ankle weights while I was not ready for it

- Chronic hip tendonitis because of L-Sit with ankle weights while I was not ready for it

- Wrist tendonitis because I wasn't doing any mobility exercises for wrists

- Achilles tendonitis because I was doing too much calf raises

- Knee pain because I was doing Single Leg Squat while I was not ready for it

I had to rest for 1 year before being able to train again.

 

Now I'm doing Foundation One, Handstand One and the Stretch Courses and I don't have this kind of problem anymore.

 

Don't give up.

[Jesus Rojas]

Damn Krel ! That was serious business, good to know that now you're fine.

 

GORIZONT, I totally agree with you, your body and mind is totally fried from planche work, quit it of your programming and instead focus on other things (Flexibility, wrist conditioning, overall mobility, lower body, coordination work) until you get the proper guidance to safely achieve a planche. If you do weights in the right way it would definitely translate to GST. 

[Bryan Wheelock]

GORIZONT, I'm heavier than you and older.  I'm 6ft 1in at 230lbs or 105kg, my arms are long for my size at a 6ft 4in wingspan(76 inch).

 

Getting hurt because you think you know better happened to me too. At least 3 times.

It's easy for a strong person to convince themselves they know what they are doing.

 

Have a little faith in Coach's experience and follow the Foundation or at the very least Steady State Training Cycle.

 

For your shoulders, you might want to start incorporating light shoulder dislocations with hands in both supinated and pronated grips. 

It helped my shoulder injury heal, but keep the weights light until you experience no pain with the movement.

[Emirking Stillalive]

I changed my priorities. My main priority during this yeat was achieving planche, i pretty much adjusted my eniter life just for that. And because of that addiction, now i lost my interest completely. When i look at myslef in the mirror and see that i lost 5kg from the day i started planche training, and i lost muscle, i had no fat what so ever when i started, i was much more buliker and better looking. And, seeing that my ego is all over my head, i want planche so bad, i would kill for it. But, it is not how things work in life, there is a rule, a principle made by someone who already achieved that same goal. Many of you guys achieved planche, i didn't listen to you, i was breaking the rule. 

Now, i'm bukling once again, and i already look a little bit better. I feel better mentally too. Planche training kill me in every way. I feel destroyed days after every training. Now, i only have pain in one muscle which i worked tha tday and that is it. 

And the rule for planche and other skills is to go slowly, and not to destroy muscles like i did.

I might come back to planche training after some period of time in case my shoulder recovers completely. If so, i will start from sctratch and work on planche for like 10 minutes, just hold an easy progression few times, and than i would continue with body building. But right now i still feel pain in some movements, i have to avoid those.

[Alexander Egebak]

I changed my priorities. My main priority during this yeat was achieving planche, i pretty much adjusted my eniter life just for that. And because of that addiction, now i lost my interest completely. When i look at myslef in the mirror and see that i lost 5kg from the day i started planche training, and i lost muscle, i had no fat what so ever when i started, i was much more buliker and better looking. And, seeing that my ego is all over my head, i want planche so bad, i would kill for it. But, it is not how things work in life, there is a rule, a principle made by someone who already achieved that same goal. Many of you guys achieved planche, i didn't listen to you, i was breaking the rule. 

Now, i'm bukling once again, and i already look a little bit better. I feel better mentally too. Planche training kill me in every way. I feel destroyed days after every training. Now, i only have pain in one muscle which i worked tha tday and that is it. 

And the rule for planche and other skills is to go slowly, and not to destroy muscles like i did.

I might come back to planche training after some period of time in case my shoulder recovers completely. If so, i will start from sctratch and work on planche for like 10 minutes, just hold an easy progression few times, and than i would continue with body building. But right now i still feel pain in some movements, i have to avoid those.

Everything in life is about finding a balance.

 

I believe a break would serve you well, but the injuries you have cast upon yourself need to be fixed sometime soon.

 

Like someone stated earlier in this thread; it should be possible to buy foundation if you could find a job and save some money. There is nothing wrong about being obsessive, the people who achieve big things in life are obsessive, but they are clever in their obsession; they know their limits, they know who to trust, they have discipline and they have success.

 

I believe the strictness of F1 (+H1) could give you that or at least bring you some of the way. Long enough for you to have learned a lesson or two about yourself.

[Emirking Stillalive]

At least i inspired my friend who is only 16 years old and can almost hold a full planche with full protraciotn. If there wasn't me he would never even start, but yeah he is 168cm and 57kg, he trains everyday, he tries all kind of stupid things and he neevr gets hurt. He did worst things than me actually, he never makes a break, tries full planche even when he is sore, and again he never gets hurt. I guess i have horrible genetics for this, he recovers 5 times faster than me, it is just ridicilous.

Edited April 11, 2015 by GORIZONT

[Jan Reipert]

no, you have more than most likely "regular genetics" and your friend is plain lucky that nothing happened...until now. if you inspire him so much you should make him stop. you are the perfect example what happens if you want too much, too fast.

[Colin Macdonald]

 

i have to learn full planche until march 2015. and it won't happen if i continue with SSC, because it is a long and steady process, it works better but once again i don't have that time, i'm already 21 years old...

 

 

Wow, I wish I had started when I was that young.  

 

I generally try not to be this blunt, but your attitude sucks, and your flighty approach training is undoubtedly your biggest problem right now. I guarantee that unless you fundamentally alter your approach to training you'll be just as frustrated and injured in March 2015. You came here asking for advice, so take the bloody advice. Get Foundation and start training seriously.

 

Pardon the cliche, but it's not the destination, it's the journey that counts. The training is the reward, there's no golden paradise of physical prowess where you'll finally be happy. Until you understand that, you will never be satisfied.

 

 

Since the date I posted has past, I thought I'd quote myself. It's not to say I told you so, but you need some perspective.

 

You need to separate absolute goals (like a specific skill) from relative goals (just getting better day by day).

 

While sometimes it feels like we're all racing towards some absolute finish, this is a futile effort. I was trying to explain this to you before, but here you are in the same place.

 

Genetics is tricky, it's absolutely very important when you talk about specific goals. People around you will have to put more or less effort into doing the same things. But in terms of satisfaction I've found it's completely irrelevant. Some people are given genetic gifts, and some people waste them. Very few people achieve anything without effort, and those who do generally aren't very interested in the achievement.

 

I'm not immune to the envy of seeing people move through progressions in 1/4 of the time it takes me. But it serves no purpose other than making me unhappy and unfocused.

 

I've found that the only thing that really counts is putting in your best effort day to day. You may feel like you're giving your best effort, but it looks like you're just oscillating between complete obsession and hopelessness. You also can't just slam your head against a brick wall, your effort needs to be focused in the right direction.

 

 i'm tired off getting all the same answers, so if i never post here again

 

We keep giving the same answers, you keep ignoring us and you're stuck in the same place.

 

You said you don't have the patience to train slowly. Your only option at this point is to develop that patience or be stuck where you are forever. Developing patience is absolutely possible. Changing your mind is probably more difficult than training your body, but it can be changed in time.

 

If you're interested in trying to learn a little presence of mind, let me know.