Combining GST (F1) with Rushfit conditioning

[Iain Scott]

Evening folks,

                 

As the title suggests, i am wondering if there is an optimal, safe or ANY way i can combine doing Gymnastic Strength Training™, in particular foundation 1, alongside the Rushfit DVD's (hoping you have heard of it!).

 

Cut a long story short, i have very recently started F1, and am currently 6 weeks into my Rushfit workouts. I work in law enforcement, so would certainly like to keep my conditioning up, and improve it! But i would like to be able to progress in terms of strength too. Following conversations with others i keep being torn between -

1) GST + either Rushfit or running

2) Full body weight training 3xper week + Rushfit or running

 

Basically i understand the importance of strength ( especially in my job) but there has to be that additional factor of cardio and conditioning. No doubt in my mind that GST can lead to incredible strength over time, but can it be combined with enough 'cardio' that i can also achieve solid levels of cardiovascular fitness?

 

Sorry to go on, but there are people here WAY more knowlegable than me about these things, and i would really appreciate some opinions

[Ryan Libke]

How structured is Rushfit?  Can you just to the conditioning work, in the sense of stamina and endurance, but omit direct strength training elements of the program?  GST like Foundation can be done with some complementary conditioning, usually.  I jump rope and run in addition to doing Foundation, and occasionally do some martial arts training, like bag work, in order to revisit the (illusory) potency of my youth.  

[Iain Scott]

As you can see from the image, the main workouts which use weights are -

1) Full body strength and conditioning workout - Not so much heavy weights but lots of reps, very taxing

2) Strength and Endurance workout - As above but more pushups, burpess, rows, etc

 

From what you're saying the obvious one to drop would likely be the full body workout. The rest are more bodyweight, light weights, and core work.

[Javier Gorriz]

I'm familiar with the Rushfit program. I used to do it and loved it. To me it's more of a conditioning and endurance program. It provides little in the way of strength training, at least when you compare it to Foundation. 

 

I see no reason why you couldn't to both. The workouts are short and although they are taxing on the moment, recovery shouldn't be a problem. I would try to keep them separate though. Work one in the morning the other in the afternoon or do Rushfit on off days from Foundation.  If you have to do them back to back, do Foundation first. 

[Iain Scott]

Javier, how would you schedule it all in. Looking at the Rushfit planner, it calls for back to back workouts some days, and cardio on 'rest days'. If i do foundation 4 x per week, whats the best way to fit Rushfit in? Or should i be doing Foundation 3 times per week?

[Javier Gorriz]

I'm not the greatest expert here. You'll have to play around with a couple of options and see what works. I'm only 6 weeks into F1 and still working on fitting my GST schedule with my regular Judo/BJJ training. Personally, I never bothered to follow the workout schedules to the letter, since I did them on my off days from my other training. I just followed the rotation in the schedule without sticking strictly to the day it should be performed on. I hope that makes sense.

 

With Foundation I have decided to follow a 3 day schedule Mo, Wed, Fri. I also do H1 Tu and Thu. I do the workouts first thing in the morning. For now, it seems to work. I do Judo and BJJ on Monday and Wednesday evenings. 

 

There is in my opinion a bigger benefit to following a strict schedule with Foundation compared to Rushfit. Foundation follows clear progressions and workout cycles. Although it's an online program, it's very personalized, since you will have to confront and deal with your weaknesses at each level of progression. Short of having your own personal trainer, I don't know any other program that's comparable to it in this aspect. As I said, I've been at it for 6 weeks and it's pinpointed my weak links with complete accuracy. And unless you are willing to cheat yourself, there are no workarounds. 

 

Rushfit and other workout programs, for all their benefits, are not structured in this way. You get a series of good workouts, but I find that if you juggled them around and threw together your own schedule, the results would not change by a lot. 

[Iain Scott]

Thanks for your advice and perspective Javier. I really appreciate it. Are you seeing any small benefits with your foundation training even after such a short time?

[Javier Gorriz]

I can say without any doubt, absolutely! You'll see, the pairing of the strength and mobility elements is the eureka moment of this program. Absolute genius!

[Coach Sommer]

I can say without any doubt, absolutely! You'll see, the pairing of the strength and mobility elements is the eureka moment of this program. Absolute genius!

 

Thanks, Javier!  I appreciate that.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Javier Gorriz]

Homage due where it is due, Coach!

[Jay Horley]

I think it depends entirely on what your goals are, I honestly think if you want to improve at the gymnastics bodies program, just do the gymnastics bodies program. After all strength is the mother of all qualities

 

If you feel you have more in the tank after the workouts good that extra energy will aide recovery and strength gains. When you get a little further into the progressions you can use earlier progressions as 'conditioning and or cardio'. 

 

As a personal trainer/strength coach it takes a lot less for people to get in shape than they think. initially 4x GB programming, Warm Up/ Workout/ Cool down and stretch is plenty enough. 

 

With regards to conditioning, power to bodyweight ratio is a big factor, so tidying up your nutrition and reducing body fat levels is also a great way to painlessly improve conditioning while building up your gymnastics strength. 

 

Any questions feel free to ask.

 

Jay 

[Iain Scott]

Thanks Jay. My goals are most certainly strength, first and foremost, as that lays the foundation for eveything else in my book. From there, reducing my body fat % is a close second. I suppose the original question was just to make sure i was approaching things correctly, as i say, due to my job it also pays to have a reasonable level of cardiovascular fitness (i have to pass annual tests etc)

[Brendan Sonnichsen]

For what it's worth, I was a competitive CrossFit athlete (regional level in 2011), up until a year ago. I have never felt as healthy & strong as I do now.

My regimen is based on an 8 day week (I am a paramedic).

D1 - (12 hour work day) Active rest

D2 - (12 hour work day) Mobility

D3 - (12 hour work night) F7 ... doing a full F7 session as designed will certainly adequate cardiovascular stress, by the way

D4 - (12 hour work night) Run + H1

D5 - Rest

D6 - Intensive stretch

D7 - F7

D8 - Run + H1

For my running workouts I downloaded the Zombies, Run program to my phone. I figured since I'm a non-competitive runner something with loose structure that is designed to be fun and entertaining would be ok. The "approx 30 minute" runs have been working fantastic for me.

This, of course, is all on a foundation of having been a crossfit athlete for nearly 10 years. I have been doing individualized program design for others for 5 years now, and I can't promise this routine will work specifically for you... but I just wanted to share what I'm up to and my belief that you don't need any DVDs to be strong and cardiovascularly fit; if you have the foundation program, you have all you need.

This routine was heavily informed by what I learned and interpreted from Coach & Orench at the Chicago GB seminar.

[Iain Scott]

Thanks man, i appreciate it. It certainly looks from your schedule (breaking it down as rest/mobility/F7/Run+H1/ repeat) that I don't need to be doing so much to increase both strength and fitness. You clearly have an extensive background in both, and this schedule works for you, so it serves as a wake up call for me -

I WAS looking at doing: 4 day schedule GST

Monday - F1

Tuesday  - F1 + Run

Wed - Rushfit

Thursday -  F1

Friday  - F1 + Rushfit

Saturday  - Rushfit

Sunday - rest

 

I would work this around my shifts, the occasional round of golf, and i plan on buying H1 in the next few weeks! No idea how i would fit that in!

 

I need to have a re-think!

[Brendan Sonnichsen]

How much you need to do depends to a large degree on what your current state of fitness is, where you want it to go, what timeline you're looking at.

 

How regularly you can stick to the schedule and how well you can recover from the required workload will determine whether or not your training program is realistic.

 

Outline your priorities, determine your current status relative to those priorities, and arrange your training accordingly.

 

I have coached several people through law enforcement based annual fitness tests. The conditioning to pass was always easy to accomplish. Assuming you haven't "let yourself go", you are likely doing more conditioning than you need, and it will impair your recovery from the Foundation training.

 

Training conditioning twice per week should be adequate. And, if in doubt, add a third "test-focused" session 6-8 weeks out from the test while simultaneously pulling back a bit on the Foundation work. Also, try doing the F7 sessions rather than the half sessions. I think you'll appreciate the challenge. Four days per week plus some active rest and stretching is probably going to be a good start for you, too... especially considering that as a LEO I'm going to assume that, like myself, you're working night shifts, and that impairs recovery too.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

In the end, it's better to start with too little work and then gradually build than start with too much work and dig yourself into a hole or get injured.

[Iain Scott]

Really good advice, thanks mate.

 

By the way, what is F7? (one of my lack of brain moments!)

[Alexander Svensson]

Really good advice, thanks mate.

 

By the way, what is F7? (one of my lack of brain moments!)

F7 is when you do all 7 elements of Foundation in the same session.

[Iain Scott]

Ah ok. Is this a preferred method people use during foundation?, or is it individually based on peoples schedules etc etc.

 

I only ask as i've previously read coach suggesting a 4 day split as 'likely best' for medium recovery users of the programme.

 

I would certainly agree that doing F7 would free up time on other days quite nicely for H1, conditioning etc

[Alexander Svensson]

I think the biggest reason for doing F7 is to build up your work capacity, but as you say it will give you more days in the week to do other stuff as well.

[Iain Scott]

OK, last questions. How best to schedule F7.

 

2 or 3 times per week? And would you try to progress at the same rate as what the 'planner' suggests if you were on a 4 day split, i.e each week you progress 'x number of seconds/reps'.

 

For example, lets say i do F7 only twice per week (equivalent to a 4 day split) Tuesday and Friday. I would simply increase the reps or seconds in each exercise the following week. I suppose the total workload is the same each week, except the workouts are longer, more taxing, and will technically allow more recovery time, so you are certainly not losing out.

[Javier Gorriz]

In the end, it's better to start with too little work and then gradually build than start with too much work and dig yourself into a hole or get injured.

 

Excellent point!

 

This program builds up quite quickly. Plus, some of the mobility exercises are actually quite taxing and if done properly will make it more difficult to complete the strength exercise (e.g. xiaopengs and push ups) with good form, reps, tempo. Try different options (splits, F7, whatever), but don't try to do too much too fast. Don't be afraid to acknowledge that a schedule is not working (too much, too little) and modify. Since completing this program could take a couple of years, there is no point in starting at a full sprint!

 

As for iMs, better approach them with caution. The directions given in this sense in the course are not only there as a disclaimer. The athletes on the videos are highly trained. They mastered all the levels of Foundation a long time ago and are way beyond our level. They have full ROM and are using pretty heavy weights for certain active stretching exercises (I'm thinking about the windmills and xiaopengs that come after that, since that's where I am right now), I wouldn't try to emulate them right away either in ROM or weights used. It may take months or even years to get to their level. Also bear in mind, that a weight that's easy to move around on a Monday with full recovery might not be so easy to move on Friday! Chose something you can manage the whole week while keeping good form.

 

I wish there were better indications on appropriate weights for iMs directly within the course manual (perhaps a suggestion for future updates?).There are a few threads with good tips on appropriate weights for beginners for both windmills and xiaopengs. 

[Iain Scott]

Good point Javier.

 

I think i am over estimating how much i actually NEED to do to improve (both strength and cardio wise). I appreciate that in both respects more does not always mean 'BETTER', and could potentially be counter intuitive. Similar to BSO, i think i will try a similar approach of a 3 on / 1 off schedule, which should look something like -

 

Day 1 - F7 (all elements)

Day 2 - Stretch / Run / other cardio

Day 3 - Rushfit (choice of 3 wods)

Day 4 - Active rest

 

Repeat

 

This should allow for full rest prior to F7 which is my priority workout. I'll run with this for a while, making sure i up the reps/seconds for each element as prescribed after every other workout. That should keep me in line with regards progressing at an optimal rate.

 

When i eventually purchase H1, i will probably try to add this into my 'run' days.

[Brendan Sonnichsen]

Right on. Looks like a great starting place to me.

Some more info about my sessions:

D1 - Active rest ... during a 12 hour day shift I just try to keep moving, otherwise it is actually a pretty sedentary job due to offload delays at hospitals and driving time

D2 - Mobility ... integrated throughout the day, but also a 30 minute or so prep after work for the F7 session. Heavily inspired by Kelly Starrett's stuff.

D3 - F7... this session takes 60-90 minutes... I fuel with BCAAs or even a bit of gatorade sometimes. When I first started training Foundation this type of work output for that amount of time was really tough, but as someone already pointed out, the idea is to build work capacity. As for how I increase volume, etc.... that's for another post someday. My volume and intensity fluctuation is heavily informed by Coach's approach, but it is different. If I'm coaching later in the day I mess around with higher level skills at the gym (rope climb, muscle-ups, handstand holds, freestanding hspu, front lever, SLS, etc.)

D4 - Run + H1.... all together this is 60-75 minutes. Zombies, Run 30 minute program and then H1 work which for me is very mobility biased.

D5 - Rest... I do nothing... well, I usually end up out for a bike ride or walk with the kids

D6 - Stretch... 60-75 minutes of F-ing HELLLLLLL.... inspired heavily by Orench at the Chicago seminar

D7 - F7

D8 - Run + H1

End message: mobility and stretching are really important to me... they are my #1 limiter. Therefore I had to put them on appropriate days in the training cycle where I have the energy to do them well. I also had to realize that they are time-consuming too, and to tack them on after a 90 minute or 60 minute training session wouldn't cut it for me.

Perhaps you're already quite flexible and can do touches on this stuff, or maybe you have the time for second sessions. Figure out what works for you and your priorities and work from there.

[Iain Scott]

Interesting stuff man. I think initially there will be some trial and error, but i'll look to stick to the plan as long as i feel im making progress. Similar to you, i work shifts, so will have to fit around that obviously

[Alexander Egebak]

Good point Javier.

 

I think i am over estimating how much i actually NEED to do to improve (both strength and cardio wise). I appreciate that in both respects more does not always mean 'BETTER', and could potentially be counter intuitive. Similar to BSO, i think i will try a similar approach of a 3 on / 1 off schedule, which should look something like -

 

Day 1 - F7 (all elements)

Day 2 - Stretch / Run / other cardio

Day 3 - Rushfit (choice of 3 wods)

Day 4 - Active rest

 

Repeat

 

This should allow for full rest prior to F7 which is my priority workout. I'll run with this for a while, making sure i up the reps/seconds for each element as prescribed after every other workout. That should keep me in line with regards progressing at an optimal rate.

 

When i eventually purchase H1, i will probably try to add this into my 'run' days.

I would recommend you to look at it like this:

 

Monday: F7

 

Tuesday: Rushfit

 

Wednesday: Rest

 

Thursday: F7

 

Friday: Stretching, running and other cardio

 

Depending on how you feel saturday you can do rushfit there.