Calisthenics

[Lee]

Not sure if this has been discussed before. There has been large progress in street workout aka calisthenics over the years. Dynamic and static moves have evolved greatly since Barstarzz days.

 

Personally, I feel that it's under the umbrella of gymnastics. With fewer apparatus like pull-up and P bars, it's easily accessible to most people. It involves basic skills covered in Foundation, coupled with flashy moves like spinning, jumping, increasing the risk of injury.

 

Their strength is not as much as gymnasts, but I am still in awe.

 

Just curious, what're your views on this growing sport? Coach Sommer pls chip in too:)

 

[Toni Laukkavaara]

Everything looks cool to an untrained eye

[DiTi]

their goal is to learn party tricks not to get stronger...

[Edoardo Roberto Cagnola]

They just don't care if their form is good or not. They just want to learn the skills/tricks. And IMO the potential that you have with rings to get stronger is much higher than with just a bar.. They consider muscle-ups (and all the variations of them) one of the greatest features of strenght, but we all know that "a muscle-up is not even a thing "

[Klemen Bobnar]

From the few videos I've seen, there has indeed been lots of progress in SW, and if it stays popular, it's probably going to evolve into a discipline of it's own. But it's still far from the difficulty of gymnastic moves, which is understandable, as we are talking about a mostly recreational population. And until the rules of the competition change to include deductions for poor form, poor form is going to be the norm.

[Brian Li]

They just don't care if their form is good or not. They just want to learn the skills/tricks. And IMO the potential that you have with rings to get stronger is much higher than with just a bar.. They consider muscle-ups (and all the variations of them) one of the greatest features of strenght, but we all know that "a muscle-up is not even a thing "

No, that is crossfit. 

[Edoardo Roberto Cagnola]

No, that is crossfit.

Ahah that's a good point actually. I think that this whole street workout thing is doing to the bodyweight training world the same thing that crossfit did to the weightlifting world. We'll see where it goes

[Brian Li]

Ahah that's a good point actually. I think that this whole street workout thing is doing to the bodyweight training world the same thing that crossfit did to the weightlifting world. We'll see where it goes

I said that was crossfit because that description matches their community more accurately since most crossfitters rarely go above the level of muscle-ups in terms of body weight exercises and they tend to get more impressed with MUs more than the more advanced exercises.

I don't think the street workout community generally considers the MU to be the top skill nowadays and their level is getting higher and higher as we speak. The top street workout guys are very strong and skilled.

[jone]

everytime I watch these street performers I only cringe at how horrible their form is and much they favor the muscle up.

[GoldenEagle]

For Coach Sommer's thoughts read the first post in the linked thread below.

 

Previous Thread: Strange Bias

[Trey Stone]

A gymnast under the mag cop 2013 rules can't do certain strength elements like one arm front lever, one arm pull up, close to impossible, etc., and I want to see that. Check out Andrey kobalev on youtube, the guy is doing one finger one arm front lever pull up now, that is strength. And also they are cleaning their form, sure planche still looks horrible, but some are performing them with good form. It is just nice to see strength elements not in the mag cop being performed. But anyway, a carmona beats any strength or street workout move. 

[GoldenEagle]

A gymnast under the mag cop 2013 rules can't do certain strength elements like one arm front lever, one arm pull up, close to impossible, etc., and I want to see that.

Those "Strength elements" aren't in the code of points because the international gymnastic federation doesn't consider them to be difficult skills.

[Jurre]

Don´t think that´s quite right.

One arm front lever is a lot harder as an L sit on the rings or even a backlever or even a front lever, yet those are in the FIG code of points.

 

Everytime a post starts about street workout you get someone saying they aren´t strong, gymnasts are really strong.

I don´t really get the whole Gymnastics vs. Street workout debate. They can live together. Do as you prefer. Both have some really strong guys imo.

 

For some it isn´t all about strength or perfect form.

[Brian Li]

Those "Strength elements" aren't in the code of points because the international gymnastic federation doesn't consider them to be difficult skills.

Not true. It is simply because no one armed skills are allowed on rings not because of difficulty, but probably because it would look weird. OAFLs are actually much harder than the normal FL. 

[Jan Reipert]

the fact that a huge part of this board is looking down at world class street workout/calisthenic athletes is embarassing. there is so much misconception surrounding this topic its not even funny anymore. just look at these comments:

 

their goal is to learn party tricks not to get stronger...

 

 

They just don't care if their form is good or not. They just want to learn the skills/tricks. And IMO the potential that you have with rings to get stronger is much higher than with just a bar.. They consider muscle-ups (and all the variations of them) one of the greatest features of strenght, but we all know that "a muscle-up is not even a thing "

 

 

Those "Strength elements" aren't in the code of points because the international gymnastic federation doesn't consider them to be difficult skills.

 

 

you don´t have to like what these guys are doing (and speaking for myself i find most of the stuff they do absolutely not aesthetically pleasing)  but displaying such ignorance just makes you look like a jealous little girl. just look at the development this scene has gone through in recent years. a few years ago there was hannibal doing bent arm front levers and everybody went crazy, after a while you saw some bent-arm banana planches on russian playgrounds and again everybody went crazy. and today? there are lots of people pulling off clean one-arm front levers, clean planches, even floor malteses seem to be the norm. just think about what this will look like in a few years. there is so much potential and instead of hating these guys we should be thankful for the exposure Gymnastic Strength Training™ gets through them.

 

the comparison with crossfit is really valid. it started of as some people doing billions of kipping pullups and horrific oly lifts. today you have the top guys lifting tremendous weights and much higher standards. i dont even wanna know how much more revenue the whole fitness industry generates thanks to crossfit. i think the same thing will happen to GST, on a much smaller cale though of course (thanks to crossfit on one hand and street workout guys on the other hand). i personally know at least 4 people that were impressed by street workout youtube clips and now are doing foundation.

[hype]

the fact that a huge part of this board is looking down at world class street workout/calisthenic athletes is embarassing. there is so much misconception surrounding this topic its not even funny anymore. just look at these comments:

you don´t have to like what these guys are doing (and speaking for myself i find most of the stuff they do absolutely not aesthetically pleasing) but displaying such ignorance just makes you look like a jealous little girl. just look at the development this scene has gone through in recent years. a few years ago there was hannibal doing bent arm front levers and everybody went crazy, after a while you saw some bent-arm banana planches on russian playgrounds and again everybody went crazy. and today? there are lots of people pulling off clean one-arm front levers, clean planches, even floor malteses seem to be the norm. just think about what this will look like in a few years. there is so much potential and instead of hating these guys we should be thankful for the exposure Gymnastic Strength Training™ gets through them.

the comparison with crossfit is really valid. it started of as some people doing billions of kipping pullups and horrific oly lifts. today you have the top guys lifting tremendous weights and much higher standards. i dont even wanna know how much more revenue the whole fitness industry generates thanks to crossfit. i think the same thing will happen to GST, on a much smaller cale though of course (thanks to crossfit on one hand and street workout guys on the other hand). i personally know at least 4 people that were impressed by street workout youtube clips and now are doing foundation.

A big THANKS for this reply, it needed to be said..

Honestly I feel more and more turned off of gymnastics everytime I come on this forum, it's crazy how you guys bash on SW. The mentality of Sw forums is completely different, it's not about what is better or who is better, it's not about doing it the right or wrongway according to "standards" it's about working out, having fun, and helping each other to ALL become better.. And THAT is what makes SW better than gymnastics to me, it has more heart and ppl dont feel the need to bash on other sports.

At the end of the day, it IS quite obv that GST athletes are stronger and better athletes, and YES they have way better forms. It is expected since they trained since their childhood under professional coachs supervision. in SW, everything is self-taught or learned from others who self-taught themselves.

[Daniel Burnham]

We just need to learn to be constructuve citics. The problem is that even people on this board have little experience as far as gymnastics goes, which is why foundation is strict now unlike the previous book.

The skills mentioned aren't trained by gymnasts. That's true. Because they aren't allowed in competition not because they are particularly easy. I mean lsit is still a skill and it is definitely easier than the one arm front lever.

What we should be doing as a group is supporting the street scene with knowledge borrowed from proper gymnasric stength progression. The benefit would be huge. And the two sides of training aren't mutually exclusive. The could definitely benefit from knowing proper straight arm training and better body positions. Adding that to what they have already done would be huge.

These guys aren't weak. But most are also not properly trained. we should be aware of that and approach them with less hostility. I think a lot of people on this board like to dismiss what they are doing because it makes us feel superior. Our training is superior in terms of proper development. But it doesn't mean that our goals are always superior to theirs. I would love to see one of those guys take the GST training and apply it to that area. I think we would see a new level of competition.

Of course I'm talking about strength. Lack of interest in proper movement is another topic for another day and is something I think severely limits some of the bboys and related movers.

[hype]

Totally agree with you mate! Sw is far from perfect and gst is definitely superior to it, but at least these guys aren't fat and lazy ppl sitting on their couch xdd they are working out and inspiring ppl to do the same, although they do need more knowledge from gst which is the right and safe way of progressing

[Edoardo Roberto Cagnola]

I think you did not get my point, DieGatze. When i was comparing SW and Crossfit I was referring to the fact that, as Crossfit did with weightlifting, calisthenics is bringing more and more people to GST (I personally am one of those people), which is an awesome fact. Also, as you said, the movement itself is just awesome. But you have to consider something: SW is a just movement (until now), but GST is a sport, that's why their sense of community is much more developed than in this environment.

I was not hating on calisthenics or anything like that, I was just saying my humble opinion, which I happen to agree with

[Brian Li]

But you have to consider something: SW is a just movement (until now), but GST is a sport, that's why their sense of community is much more developed than in this environment...

 

Correction: Gymnastics is a sport (not GST)

 

SW is not a sport, but many guys there do incorporate GST.

[GoldenEagle]

Not true. It is simply because no one armed skills are allowed on rings not because of difficulty, but probably because it would look weird. OAFLs are actually much harder than the normal FL. 

I thought how it might also look odd to let go of one ring mid routine.

the fact that a huge part of this board is looking down at world class street workout/calisthenic athletes is embarassing. there is so much misconception surrounding this topic its not even funny anymore. just look at these comments:

 

 

you don´t have to like what these guys are doing (and speaking for myself i find most of the stuff they do absolutely not aesthetically pleasing)  but displaying such ignorance just makes you look like a jealous little girl. just look at the development this scene has gone through in recent years. a few years ago there was hannibal doing bent arm front levers and everybody went crazy, after a while you saw some bent-arm banana planches on russian playgrounds and again everybody went crazy. and today? there are lots of people pulling off clean one-arm front levers, clean planches, even floor malteses seem to be the norm. just think about what this will look like in a few years. there is so much potential and instead of hating these guys we should be thankful for the exposure Gymnastic Strength Training™ gets through them.

 

the comparison with crossfit is really valid. it started of as some people doing billions of kipping pullups and horrific oly lifts. today you have the top guys lifting tremendous weights and much higher standards. i dont even wanna know how much more revenue the whole fitness industry generates thanks to crossfit. i think the same thing will happen to GST, on a much smaller cale though of course (thanks to crossfit on one hand and street workout guys on the other hand). i personally know at least 4 people that were impressed by street workout youtube clips and now are doing foundation.

 

Since my post was quoted and to get the facts straight. I really don't care about street workout "Competitions." The best in the world* aren't even allowed to participate. To me, street workout "Competitions" are just another "Rat race" of "I'm better than you because of _______________."

 

What I do care about is developing the needed connective tissue and muscular strength to handle the physical demands of the "Skills" I choose to do.

 

*From Section 6.6 of the 2014 Street Workout World Cup Official Regulations "Athletes who are or have been enclosed in the list of licensed sportsmen of the International Federation of Gymnastics - IFG (Fédération Internationale de Gymnastique – FIG) are not allowed to participate in the street workout competitions."

 

_{(Emphasis added for clarity)}

[GoldenEagle]

After some more digging into the 2014 Street Workout World Cup's Official regulations.

4. Requirements for Application Videos:

 

4.1    As the SW World Cup 2014 is being organized with limited resources, the travel, accommodation and other expenses for Participants will not be covered. Taking that into the account, in order to attract future financial supporters, each Stage of the SW World Cup 2014 must be splendid and luxuriant in terms of athletes’ performance and only the best athletes from around the world may participate.

 

6. Requirements for Participants:

 

6.6    Athletes who are or have been enclosed in the list of licensed sportsmen of the International Federation of Gymnastics - IFG (Fédération Internationale de Gymnastique – FIG) are not allowed to participate in the street workout competitions.

 

7. Rules of Competition:

 

7.4    During their performance the Participants may perform any street workout elements to amaze audience and increase the evaluation.

7.5    During his performance each Participant is allowed to use gloves, additional weights, as well as other elements contributing to splendour of the athlete’s performance and make it more attractive for viewers.

7.10    In any Stage and in any round of competition any of the winners or Participants may be required to perform a doping test according to the international regulations and requirements of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). By taking participation in any Stage of the SW World Cup 2014, the Participants irrevocably agree to take, where appropriate, anti-doping tests.
7.11    If the results of the anti-doping test are positive, the guilty Participant will be disqualified from participation in official street workout events for a period of two (2) years.

 

^{(Emphasis added for clarity)}

 

The Prohibited List by WADA

 

S8: Cannabinoids

Natural (e.g. cannabis, hashish, marijuana) or synthetic delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol

(THC) and cannabimimetics (e.g. “Spice”, JWH018, JWH073, HU-210) are prohibited.

[Blairbob]

 Hahah, no ganja man for de street workouts!   This ain't BJJ.

 

 I dunno, considering most of these guys are crazy russians or ex non elite russian gymnasts who didn't make the cut, they are generally pretty good, strong and ballsy.
 

[Brian Li]

 

I thought how it might also look odd to let go of one ring mid routine.

 

Since my post was quoted and to get the facts straight. I really don't care about street workout "Competitions." The best in the world* aren't even allowed to participate. To me, street workout "Competitions" are just another "Rat race" of "I'm better than you because of _______________."

 

What I do care about is developing the needed connective tissue and muscular strength to handle the physical demands of the "Skills" I choose to do.

 

*From Section 6.6 of the 2014 Street Workout World Cup Official Regulations "Athletes who are or have been enclosed in the list of licensed sportsmen of the International Federation of Gymnastics - IFG (Fédération Internationale de Gymnastique – FIG) are not allowed to participate in the street workout competitions."

 

_{(Emphasis added for clarity)}

 

I don't care much about street workout competitions too although sometimes it's entertaining to watch. I agree that it is silly that they won't allow FIG gymnasts to join. I don't think the SW organizers claim that it is a competition for the "best BW athletes" like what crossfit organizers claim crossfit is for the fittest people on Earth and I don't think most of the SW athletes claim to be the best or better than gymnasts except some minority of idiots like the Bartendaz. I mainly only look at some of the top SW guys so you are probably right that the typical SW athlete still have horrendous form today.

[Jurre]

I also find it odd that gymnasts aren´t allowed to compete in the SW championships.

But this: 

Rayne-William, on 26 Sept 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

 

To me, street workout "Competitions" are just another "Rat race" of "I'm better than you because of _______________."

 

 

How is that different from most of not any competitions, also gymnastics competitions. Isn't a competition exactly to show you are better than someone else because of _____________.

 

Street workout is not gymnastics. Therefor you shouldn't look at them with the same glasses.
Street workout also has a lot of show elements.

Gymnastics is more about proper form.

 

Also you can't tell me any beginning gymnast uses perfect form straight away, same for any SW guy.