Workout help and Hypertrophy question.

[Walt Peacock]

Here is the deal. My goals are simple. I want hypertrophy (to put on about ten pounds of lean muscle mass) and I also want to increase my static hold times for front lever, back lever, L sit, straddle L, flag and planche to around one minute each. I am currently at 20-25 sec on the BL, 8 sec on the front lever, 30-40 sec on the L sit, not good on the straddle L, 15 sec for the frogstand (adv. tuck) and am at 15 sec on the flag.

Here is the routine I have been doing the past three weeks:

Day 1

frogstand 4x15 sec

HeSPU 3x5

back lever 4x15

xr pullups 3x5

front lever 4x15

deck squats 3x5

L-sit 4x15

HLL 3x10

3 rounds (ring routine): mu - bulg dip - mu-BL - mu - FL - mu frogstand

DAY 2

frogstand 6x10

xr flys 3x5

back lever 6x 10

towel pullups 3x5

front lever 6x10

GHR 3x5

L-sit 6x10

windshield wipers 3x10

3 rounds: mu - front roll - mu - backward roll - mu - inverted pull up

DAY 3

frogstand 4x15

xr bulgarian dips 3x5 weighted (25lbs)

backlever 4x15

wide L- pullups 3x5

front lever 4x15

sprints 5x 40 yard dash

L-sit 4x15

v-ups 3x10

3 rounds: mu - support hold 15sec - mu - deep dip stretch - BL - FL

Day 4

frogstand 6x 10

xr hspu with straps 3x5

back lever6x10

xr close chinups 3x6

front lever 6x10

SLS 3x5 each leg

L-sit 6x10

flag negatives 3x4 each side

cross pullouts 3x5

at the end of this week I am scheduled to change my routine to the following:

Day 1

L-sit 4x15

bodylevers 3x6

front lever 4x15

jump squats 3x6

back lever 4x15

wide L-pullups weighted 3x6

frogstand 4x15

HeSPU 3x6

cross pullouts 3x5

Day 2

back lever 3x20 sec

muscle ups 3x6 weighted

frogstand 3x20

korean dips 3x6

front lever 3x20

overhead press squats 3x6

L-sit 3x20

weighted HLL 3x8 2.5lbs

flag 3x10

xr handstand holds 5 minutes

Day 3

back lever 4x15

front lever pulls 3x5

L-sit 4x15

v-ups 3x8

frogstand 4x15

xr bulgarian ppp 3x5

front lever 4x15

SLS 3x5

cross pulls 4x4

Day 4

frogstand 3x20

korean HSPU 3x5 (wall)

back lever 3x20

behind the neck wide L pullups 3x5

front lever 3x20

Ians 3x3

L-sit 3x20

Weighted HLL 3x6

Press Handstands 15 total

My rest days are between days 2 and 3 and between days 4 and 1. I am not sure if I am over training or under training. Please Help. Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Walt

[Wangtang6911]

Dang, that's like training strength 4 times a week!

If you want hypertrophy, I don't think doing this workout is going to help you much. From my experience, I found that I have gotten the most muscle growth out of weight training.

I think the best thing you can do for increasing the hold times of these positions is just to simply play around with them and see how far you can push yourself each time.

[Mike B]

as log as you have proper resistance, hypertrophy can be gained with any kind of resistance training. just gotta increase the total volume over time. lets hypothetically say that a handstand pushup gives you 100 pounds of resistance as your 1rm. so lets say you did 1 rep of 100 pounds 10 times, thats 1000 pounds of volume lifted over your entire workout. now lets say you went to 80% of that one rep max, 80 pounds, and did the same 10 sets, but this time for 3 reps each. thats 80x3 = 240 multiply again by 10 sets and thats 2400 pounds. thats a 240% increase in total volume, definitely enough to stimulate some hypertrophy.

after a short while your 1RM increases and what used to be 80% is now 70-60% of your 1rm. but the resistance hasnt changed, its still 80 pounds. so take that same 80 pounds and increase the volume. 80x4=320 or 3200 total volume or 80x5= 400 or 4000 pounds total. and all this still within the same time periods. find clever ways to add more total pounds lifted in your workouts and you will see definite gains in size, no matter what modality you use.

[Walt Peacock]

Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate it.

[Edward Smith]

I disagree that one can get the same results (hypertrophy wise) without weights. Hypertrophy is mainly systemic (whole body). There are three things to consider when training for hypertrophy, cns recruitment, muscular damage and hormonal release. The first two can be achieved via gymnastic training but the third is limited. Spinal loading exercises (squats, deadlifts) are pretty much the best option.

Another thing is because of muscular damage after workouts, you may want to do an upper/lower body split.

[Joshua Naterman]

Ed X is right that the squats/deadlifts will help a lot with your quest for size. There is more to the formula than just pounds per workout, a better formula is total weight moved over what distance, over what period of time. It's true though, that the higher rep training will give you more sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. The heavier weight is going to stimulate myofibrular hypertrophy, and that causes minimal change in muscle cross-sectional area.

I don't know about anyone else, but my shoulders and chest are growing faster with gymnastics than with anything else I've ever done. My lats, eh. Smaller than before. Still big, still really strong, but smaller. Lower lats are bigger, but overall there's a decrease. Biceps are slightly smaller, but arms are bigger. And stronger. I used to have retardedly huge biceps though, so that's probably to be expected. I'm going to get some pics up soon. Legs have gotten smaller, strength is about the same. Deadlifts have gone up a bit. Hmm, what else. Work capacity has gone WAY up. I was already doing gymnastic-style ab training, though I didn't know it at the time, so that hasn't changed much.

Anyhow, for overall body growth, you're going to need more than gymnastics if size is your goal and you want to get there as fast as possible.

[Walt Peacock]

So, if I kept my routine the same, but added deallifts and squats I would se a better overall (total body) increase in strength and size? What about my arms. Since I have been training gymnastics my triceps have gotten smaller. Should I be supplementing with a testosterone booster to help with the horomonal aspect? Thanks!

[Mike B]

edx: I would have to disagree with your points. i have yet to find evidence proving the only way to release testosterone is from barbell squats and deadlifts (athough i will agree that they are also good ways to train, deadlift being my favorite).

slizzardman: first, what is lightweight about 80% of your 1RM? id say those are very heavy loads to be working with and doing those for high reps smartly (ie: 10 sets of 3 reps) one can easily do enough work in a single workout to stimulate myofibrular hypertrophy. second, i made sure to point out that as you progress , you are keeping the time trained the same, but the overall volume increases within that time period.

suprtank: no need to supplement, just eat more and train hard! nothing wrong with adding squats or deadlifts. my personal preference is to do pistols and deadlifts/kettlebell ballistics. be careful training with heavy squats if you want to continue progressing through gymnastics movements, as a heavier base does not help. but do whatever it takes to accomplish YOUR goals.

a template you may want to adjust to gymnastics style workouts is Chad Waterbury's Anti-Bodybuilding hypertrophy routine. http://www.fituncensored.com/forums/met ... rbury.html

enjoy!

[Walt Peacock]

Mike,

Thanks so much! I appreciate your feedback!

Walt

[Joshua Naterman]

  Mike B said:

slizzardman: first, what is lightweight about 80% of your 1RM? id say those are very heavy loads to be working with and doing those for high reps smartly (ie: 10 sets of 3 reps) one can easily do enough work in a single workout to stimulate myofibrular hypertrophy. second, i made sure to point out that as you progress , you are keeping the time trained the same, but the overall volume increases within that time period.

suprtank: no need to supplement, just eat more and train hard! nothing wrong with adding squats or deadlifts. my personal preference is to do pistols and deadlifts/kettlebell ballistics. be careful training with heavy squats if you want to continue progressing through gymnastics movements, as a heavier base does not help. but do whatever it takes to accomplish YOUR goals.

a template you may want to adjust to gymnastics style workouts is Chad Waterbury's Anti-Bodybuilding hypertrophy routine. http://www.fituncensored.com/forums/met ... rbury.html

enjoy!

80% is still well below myofibrular range. At 80% you should be doing 10-15 reps, and that is squarely in sarcoplasmic hypertrophy area. I'm not saying that myofibrular won't occur, but it will not be emphasized. You have to be working above 90% to really be stimulating myofibrular hypertrophy and strength gains. You will obviously gain some strength no matter what you do, but to be stimulating strength as a primary training response you've got to be working with a weight that you can't handle for more than 30 seconds at the most, which tends to be in the 6 rep range on the high end. It could be that those 6 reps take 15 seconds, that's fine. It's still strength work. After that you're moving into size gaining work. You won't get too much size from that unless you're on the juice. Anything you can do 10 or more reps with isn't all that heavy for you.

If you go back and read, no one said anything about squats or deadlifts being the only thing that stimulates hormone release. They just stimulate the MOST hormone release. Anything you do will stimulate hormone production. I have no idea where you got that idea. Squats and deadlifts will do more than any other exercise to make your body grow. Doesn't mean other exercises won't make you grow

As for the website, the guy sounds like an idiot, but if you skip past his nonsense and get to the workout, he has some ok stuff. The principles he introduces, such as less intensity, less volume and more frequency work well for getting big. I am at a friend's birthday party and just don't care enough to get further into this unless someone really wants more info, in which case I will, but probably not before tomorrow Have a great weekend!

[Edward Smith]

Slizzardman, Chad Waterbury is (in my opinion) an extremely hit and miss author/strength coach. Some of his ideas are worth exploring and tinkering with others are complete crap.

As I said before hypertrophy is primarily systemic. Charles Poliquin has said if you have stalled on your arms training your legs will help, Christian Thibaudeau and other strength coaches agree on this or similar ideas.

Some thing that peeves me a bit on this website sometimes is when people ask about hypertrophy people's response is pretty much do 8-12 reps, eat lots (Mike your not saying that). Hypertrophy like strength training requires smart programming. Suprtank, there are many things you may want to look at like Arnold's 50 pull ups (perform 50 wide grip pull ups irrespective of how many sets it takes), drop sets, eccentric only sets (negatives) and lots of others.

Nutrition wise, you do need to eat a lot. But, depending on your current bf% you should not gain heaps of fat. If your around 10% you may gain a bit of fat but not much, but if your 20% or over with proper nutrition you could lose fat.

[Joshua Naterman]

I hear that. And yea, training to get big is tricky if you are trying to absolutely max yourself out. You have to shock your body, but the basics don't change too much. And the funny thing is that 8-12 really isn't quite enough for the best hypertrophy results. Of course, there are a number of ways to get to the goal, and to use what works best for your body is the smart thing. It's true that lots of small sets at a relatively low intensity can help a lot, if you're getting enough total volume. The smartest thing that website said was to not train until you got tired. If you're trying to get big, the last thing you want to do is spend more energy than you absolutely have to.