Jumper's Knee Mayhem

[Alejandro Gjezi]

Good evening ladies and gentlemen, oh, and beasts, there should be some in here, judging from the coach's work. XD
I'm new to this forum. Coach Somer directed me here after contacting him online to adress my problem so that everybody could benefit from whatever needs to be said about my condition.
I guess that injuries in this part of the body may not be as popular as shoulder-elbow ones, yet I believe it needs to be addressed as it attacks athletes of any status, be it proffessionals or amateurs, gymnasts or gym rats, vertical leap freaks or desk-syndrome junkies!

What am I talking about? The dreaded JUMPER'S KNEE.



Getting started on the condition I feel like I need to post a brief summary of who I am and what i do, so that you may better understand my goals, and then get on the more general side of things...

First of all, I am a Greek basketball athlete.

My goal is becoming a proffessional in the sport. For the moment, my knees are thwarted by tendinosis in the patellar tendon, to be exact the lower pole of the patella. It has kept me one year and something TOTALLY OUT of my sport.
I used to be quite the athlete when it came to basketball (see, I'm talking like a grandpa, but i'm only 20!)
Had about a 2xsquat and deadlift when i was 18, could jump about 92cms with running approach, could dunk it while being 5.8ft tall etc etc.
The problem came due to overworking, extrinsic factors such as concrete courts and my inability to give it a f*king rest when my body told me for two goddamn years to stop (through pain)

Well, enough with the bragging, down to the problem.

One knee (left, my primary jumping knee as a right handed basketball player) is severe enough to have warranted a prior (failed) surgery done arthroscopically (debridement)
The other is just your regular run-in-the-mill jumper's knee.

The severe condition presents fibrotic tissue in about 1/3 of the tendon's width coupled with the usual tendon thickness, and some other menial sites of fibrotic tissue under recovery due to the (stupid) doctor's choices to debride tissue that should have been left alone. There is evidence of a previous partial tear of minimal importance (as it has healed now) yet scar tissue remains present there (at the insertion) too.
It has all the characteristics of insertional patellar tendinosis plus some.



NOW:
My plan of action is using a recently popularized method called Tenex to debride the faulty tissue, a couple of prp+ Stem Cell injections and a peptide (called tb500) to warrant quality healing, aka no more fibrosis and re-injury.
The less injured knee will recieve about the same treatment except for the Tenex procedure, which is out of my league (cost-wise) for both knees, which will be interchanged for percutaneous needling to make the injury acute again and warrant a new healing cycle.


Lengthy introductions have been made. Now, the three REAL questions i got.



1.Has ANYBODY here used the Tenex procedure, Stem Cells, Peptides (yes, I know they are considered and technically are anabolics, thank you) to get ANY tendon rid of fibrosis, aka curing tendinosis in ANY site, not necessarily the knee? Do you know about somebody who did?

2.Has anybody gotten rid of severe Patellar Tendinosis-Jumper's knee by any OTHER means?

3.(probably most important) What can I do with a damaged knee except terminal leg raises and isometric holdings to keep excercising to avoid further atrophy of my quad-bicep femoris? Also, what will I do to condition my knees AFTERWARDS to turn them into IRON SPRINGS? Is there any gymnastics protocol? I'm aware there is one discipline in gymnastics where they jump doing flips and so from one corner to another (don't know how they call it in English, sorry) and they seem to have really conditioned legs...

Thanks to everybody willing to read all this and respond, and sorry for the lengthy post.

All questions, answers and general contributions are welcome, thanks to coach Sommer for giving me access to this forum

[Nicholas Sortino]

My friend had PRP done in his knee due to injuries sustained from parachuting.  He said it hurt really bad the first few days, but that it is feeling much better than it had before.  The PT gave a routine to restrengthen the knee from there, but I don't know what it is.  I do know he started his rehabilitation about a week after the procedure (maybe sooner?)

[Joseph Blazuk]

Can try needle tenotomy for 'cheaper' option, +/- dextrose (prolotherapy), the act of needling alone may bring about healing.  Would make sure anyone doing this is doing so under ultrasound.  Some believe separating tendon from fat pad doing a high volume ultrasound guided scraping procedure to disrupt neovessels may help relieve pain and induce healing/better tendon gliding if there is adherence on ultrasound dynamic imaging.  State-side, those procedures, or some form of those procedures, are usually covered under insurance.  Tenex is typically covered as well - though still may be more expensive than PRP if you have a high deductible.  If you have calcifications within the tendon, Tenex may be the best option.  There are no studies comparing PRP to Tenex.  The literature is relatively scare and mixed on both.  I think it's reasonably safe to say the outcomes are 'modest to decent' and probably on par with surgical outcomes.  Surgery for chronic tendon problems is not great and certainly carries substantial risk.

[Alejandro Gjezi]

So basically, after reading your post I did the best choice by deciding to go by ESWT to break crystallizations in the tendon (small recalcitrant tissue) and do three prp's in each knee plus stem cell injection...
The reason we decided to forego surgery with my doc is because a recent ultrasound showed a significant reduction on the scar tissue and more thickening (due to inflamation) plus very small crystals in all the body of the patellar tendon...
He told me that it's better to not "invade" the tendon again, and go with the above treatments as he has seen some of the worse cases dissappear completely in active jumpers, proffessional volleyball players and olympic weightlifters (oh yeah, they get it too, and pretty badly it seems)
He also suggested the TOPAZ microsurgery as an alternative IF everything else fails, along with stemcells, but he is positive that it would be overkill for the remaining scar tissue...
We both agreed on using peptides to help the healing process and with my "doping guru" we decided on bpc157, tb500 and some enzyme injections that can be coupled with the prp's after everything is in order... 
As soon as I feel getting better I am to jump on the physiotherapy train while still on peptide "high gear" and fulfill successfully an eccentric loading protocol, and then it is all lifting and icing from there on to get back to my old strength levels pain free
It sounds like a plan, I guess... I feel more positive than ever before, especially due to the unexpected scarring tissue recession
Thanks for your reply, I found some of the information to be pretty interesting and part of protocols I'd never heard about or researched thoroughly...
Let me add for those reading this, the most extreme yet effective way to get rid of patellar tendinosis IF EVERYTHING ELSE HAS FAILED is the full excision of 1/3 of the patellar tendon just as you would do when you harvest an autograft for an ACL... However it is not the best course of action for high volume jumpers due to the high stress the patellar tendon has to endure
If anybody else has something to add, I am waiting to hear... 
Thanks a mill

[Douglas Wadle]

You're already receiving advanced medical therapies, so i would only add here an exercise that i think would be helpful for you.  Eccentric exercises have been shown to improve tendon healing best, so I would recommend front squats done eccentrically, i.e. very slow down, then set weights down, stand up and repeat.  i would avoid the concentric phase while you are healing.  start once per week then increase if tolerating and if not aggravating your condition.  I would say front squats, as opposed to other forms of squats, because they will allow the knees to be more upright, and focus more on the quad forces coming across the knee.  be very diligent about proper knee and foot alignment during the exercise.  start light, and advance as tolerated.  Also, make sure you don't have asymmetries in your quads and that your patella is tracking straight.  if you have weak VMO (vastus medialis obliquus) then you will not improve until you correct that dysfunction with end range knee extension exercises (only last 10-15 degrees of extension).  Good luck!

[Joseph Blazuk]

 Sounds like you're on a reasonable course.  I hope you're back in full action soon.  

 

I would just add that tendon excision, yes, it's definitely the most extreme option.  I'm not convinced how effective it is both for pain relief and for returning people to sport but a surgeon may tell you otherwise.  The problem with surgical tendon debridement is you're still only able to see the tendon by naked eye (or camera).  With ultrasound you can actually see intrasubstance (inside the tendon).  

[Alejandro Gjezi]

Thanks everybody for all your inputs and support, to MT Nordic, i want to ask this: When, in your opinion, should I incorporate the eccentric front-squat (in what phase of my therapy) and what should be the pain-tolerance I should have for this excercise? I mean, on a scale 1-10 how much if at all should the pain be (also reps-sets would be appreciated), and how should I go about my rehab when it comes to intergrating it alongside the therapies (prp) so that I don't fuck up my tendon's healing? I mean, when do I start eccentric training (with a slanted board) altogether and when do I incorporate the eccentric squats to it?

With the current protocol (Peptides, aprotinin, prp, stem cells) it's probable that my tendon will be quite better (painless at least) after the initial 2 months, and the only excercise I am doing in that time frame is weighted leg raises and leg curls, plus aggresive quad stretching...

I am adding other peptides for the first month or two of rehabilitation after the initial healing protocol has been completed (cjc1295+ghrp6) and I guess it is THERE where I would start with the eccentric loading protocols... Any ideas regarding this thought? My docs believe it's best to assess the slight inflamation the tendon has and the fibrotic tissue first and THEN, after the first indications of successful healing are present, THEN only start the rehab...

Any further advices and/or ideas towards the rehab are welcome, especially from anybody who's had success regarding my problem...

Thanks again guys, you're being very helpful

[Douglas Wadle]

I would say it should be pain free.  If you are noticing it and it is not painful, that is probably alright, as long as it doesn't hurt worse after you are done or the next day.  If it is painful, you are either using too much weight or it is too soon.  Best of luck.

[Alejandro Gjezi]

Thanx MT Nordic, I see you're a skier, have you suffered from this in the past? I know many skiers get this from the valgus-prominent stance your sport promotes (which was one of my keypoints towards getting this, along with overworking... Faulty movement pattern+Repeated strain are never good friends of an athlete)

If so, did you fully recover and are you talking from experience?

BTW, Thanks a mill again, this forum is being ultra-helpful...

For the general topic, I will update on my condition and therapy progress if somebody is reading this and is interested on the "advanced ways" of getting rid of tendon injury when most of the conventional and "less groundbreaking" ways have failed

I'm still on the enzymes+prp phase of the rehab (all with the use of peptides from a very trustworthy source, not black market-hit or miss style and most of my nagging tendonitis(es) in other parts has all but dissapeared)

I haven't even harvested the stem cells for cultivation, let alone use them yet, and the pain is already quite less upon movement (still significant upon touch), and my doc's and my own guess is that we owe it mostly to our dearest tb500 and the enzymes injected there (aprotinin, apospastan, traumeel and other less known enzymes in a coctail to get down the inflammation and thickening of the tendon)



I am very happy to have at last a very clear path of action... I've been reading and researching for two years on the subject of tendinosis on a very specific level (published studies, forums, tendon ergophysiology etc) because the knowledge on the matter and the therapies available are not widely known and many of the "approved" and "proven" therapies by athletes are on the "sketchy side" of things, using anabolics or peptides alongside the local augmentative injections (prp stem cells) and thus are not usually refered as usual protocol by docs unless you know where and how to ask, and i'm happy to say that this forum has only helped me get much much more specific on my rehab (and subseqently the Youtube videos I plan on making to help the world understand more about sports on a high level and what happens behind all the glory and shine)

Have a nice day-night yall

[Ronnicky Roy]

Hey Alejandro, any updates on the knee?
I've been quite curious in stem cell treatment as of late and heard many more success stories on the subject. Hearing good news from a forum member would be that much more trustworthy in my eyes.
My father damaged the cartilage in both of his knees during his time in the Marine Corp and he still deals with the discomfort on a daily basis. He's not stuck in a chair by any means, but the idea of him having an improved quality of life and maybe even getting back to running again is exciting.

[Douglas Wadle]

Nick, for your father there are currently studies underway using stem cells for treatment of arthritis in patients who would otherwise be candidates for joint replacement.  I don't know where you're at, but out west in the US they are in salt lake and denver.  we're only in the initial stages of understsanding how to use this technology.  cheers.

[Ronnicky Roy]

He's as far away as possible in Virginia lol. But that's still good news : )

[Alejandro Gjezi]

Stem cells work, Nick, plain and simple... At least for tendinopathies
However, my therapy was not stem-cell derived only, i used peptides (and first quality-farmaceutical ones, on top of that)
Furthermore, we selected  the (quite expensive) ones targeted for tendon healing (tb500 and bpc 157)

That being said, Adipose-derived mesenchymal stem cells DO work, and I've definitely seen the difference after my shot (from an 80% of knee-wellness i'd skyrocket it to 95% right now, on the bad one, and 100% on the good one, literally, the guy that did the ultrasound told me there were no marks left, just like a brand-new tendon, and i'm only 1 week and a half into the shots)
As for your dad's problem, i've heard good things when it comes to using stemcells after debriding the old and worn out parts of the cartilage (more than one stem cell shot in each affected area over the course of a year, though) and i'd suggest you try that if you... well... have the money to spend haha

Also I'd suggest for your dad using peptides and even jumping on life-long hgh treatment (again if you have the "green" and if he is not against ped's helpful hand) coupled with the "debridement+stemcell" way (if the doc believes a debridement would be safe and sound)

I'd also tell you to look into hyaluronic acid shots (especially synvisc)... I've been told mixed things about them, but some grannies in my gym have used it to literally beat arthritis (it was on an early stage though)

Now for those witnessing and following my glorious comeback (jk jk) and those interested in healing chronic tendon issues no matter the cost, let me tell you a couple more of thingies...

and those thingies are: BPC157 and TB500... yep the afomentioned miracle workers... They are HUGE... they do deliver what they promise if you do have quality peptides...
I think that only with a prp more i would be gtg (meaning that the stemcells are an overkill to my therapy, as the tendon has really and honestly "changed its shape" according to the ultrasonography from back when i had the small tear, to a normal-ish tendon with minimal fibrosis, and totally asymptomatic to daily activities and low-weight training)

I have yet to progress to real close-chain training, but today i did some jump-shots and some layups just to test it out for a 5-10minute span (something that would have costed me an hour of voltaren-crossfriction massage and a lot of icing a year ago) and i was just like when i was 16 y.o training with no worries in the world... NO PAIN!

All ideas about how to start my close-chain endeavors are welcome, especially for those of you that would be so kind as to tell me which to chose between the two for my rehab (with a valid reason, lol): Peterson Stepups vs Eccentric-slanted-board training (single leg) both with progressive overload protocol that will be upped up until i can lift half my bodyweight extra in 90 degree eccentric bends before i start pistol squat progressions, deadlifts and eccentric weighted squats

I will be having the infallible help of our dear "full-size MGF", the real winner of the 2014 winter olympics, an untraceable (as to this day) agent (peptide ) that helps tendon-to-muscle strength expression, cns recruitment, local hypertrophy and tendinous strength) hahaha and then some, with a 6 week ghrh+ghrp combo to ensure my tendons remain healthy and ready to go after all my rehab...
After that it's the natty way again :'(

DISCLAIMER: Let me clarify that this is the first time I use any form of ped's and it came as a necessity to rehab my tendons thoroughly (all my body feels like new)
I'm not an agressive roidhead, nor am i anti-dope... I'm planning to use more in the future, from steroids for some "quick strength-explosiveness gains" to more peptides (they truly make you the "best version of yourself" without being "too much") now that i've had my first gentle experience, but I do this knowing fully well the risks and the benefits (read and educate yourselves, don't medicate yourselves in ignorance, and if not aiming for proffessional goals, better not do it at all lol)

That being said, i also want to thank all of you, those who read and comment, those who just read, those who gave their input and those who are probably learning a thingie or two thanks to this thread of cummulative knowledge, you guys are the best and I sincerely hope some of you get to use some of the same methods I do and get rid of any serious tendinous problem you may have had or are having...

Keep training hard and smart yall, and best of whishes

[Alejandro Gjezi]

Hey guys!

Final post on this (except if anybody else decides to revive it) Thanks for being on the ride with me!

I'm mostly back to lifting with a grain of salt, not yet running but i have tried some "aggressive" jumping with minimal pain a day after (aka what you would call tendonitis level1 symptoms)

When i'm training i am being very very careful with the movement patterns and focusing on eccentric training, icing some, off the peptides though (less anti-inflamatory properties) and my strength is back to subpar yet acceptable levels...

I don't see me playing at a high level again until i get rid of those patches of still-existing scar tissue the latest thorough examinations showed with some minimally invasive treatment (tenex-topaz) in the future! Not if i don't want to eventually go back to the hell i was in a year ago (constant searing pain) due to the excess-training for high level basketball needs but for now i will be able to come back to being an athlete, at least with some rest days and icing, not a fucking pedestrian wreck and build back to my old good self without being in horrible pain after each movement

My veredict on the treatments i used? They amped me up from an approximate 20-30% to a 70-80% of my former self, and i'd dare to say i would have been a 100% when i was on the peptides if i were to be fully active due to the INSANE regenerative properties the bpc157 has on tendons and the anti-inflammatory properties of Mr. tb500 :3

Stem cells helped getting rid of a big chunk of scar tissue, especially on my "bad" knee, which is now my "good knee" but one injection is NOT enough for big damage, of that i'm sure.
However i now THOROUGHLY BELIEVE that there is no real way to get rid of degenerative tendinosis if you don't "cut" the diseased tendon...

Stem cells did help along with prp, but they work way better regenerating a tendon that is "freshly hurt" than something that is already "healed" in the body's perception...
Meaning that wherever the needle punctured, there is no more scar, but wherever it didn't touch, the stem cells alone did NOT heal the scar tissue or disolve any calcium deposits by themselves. Nor did the PRP shots i had in the past.

So guys, if you have some tendinosis of sorts, cut the diseased part with as minimally invasive methods as possible (aka NO OPEN SURGERY for fucks sake, go to a fucking surgeon, not a butcher) and THEN follow something close to the compounds and therapies i used to come back 100%

How do i know for sure? cause a guy i know was doing something close the same i did after a full rotator cuff tear and he's back to heavy lifting and callisthenics of sorts 100% 6 months afterwards No remnants of pain, no nothing, and the good thing? He was good to go from the 3d month, but he held back and did his therapy patiently and he didn't have any issues

Veredict? Satisfactory results, not complete healing, still back to sports yay!!!.

[Joseph Fino]

I am very interested in bpc 157 and tb 500 due to some extensive ligament injuries. Is there anyway you could tell me your sourcing for those peptides?

 

[Joseph Fino]

I will also be doing stem cells as well. PRP was helping but wasn't doing enough. 

[Eva Pelegrin]

Anybody else cares to share their results/approach regarding healing chronic tendonitis with stem cells + peptides, or otherwise for elbow tendonitis and downsides, please. I consulted with several surgeons and most were dismissive of their efficacy or not making any "promises." Their opinions were in the lines of lottery approach: "Yeah, if you want to try it, sometimes it works for some people." As if we all had extra $$$ to play around with. Also for chronic pain from knee chondral loss and meniscus parrot tear. I recently tried HA injections (Hyaluronic Acid) and the treatment didn't do a thing for me. Thank you.
 

 

[Eva Pelegrin]

Zach, would you believe that I have already tried all those things, and more, at different times with NO success yet Not sure if my ulnar nerve sublaxation has something to do with the burning and continuous irriation. Doctors dunno. I'm just going to strengthen the sh*t out of elbow extensors next and may resort to your rice bucket protocol because this is the weakest I've been in a while and my arms/forearms are like jello. I feel worse when my arms are mushy like this. 

Supplements, I'm covered, including Meriva-SR. Anti-inflammatory, high anti-oxidant diet, checked. I have bottles of zheng gu shui at home and left over Yunnan Bayao (analgesic) patches. Not a difference for me. 

Currently, I'm seeing my acupuncturist and massage therapist, every other week each. I have a team of practitioners at my holistic studio. Always follow holistic, alternative path, non-steroid... I have a stim unit at work. I can dig it out and try again. Did Graston, A.R.T. and acupuncture in the past and consistently. Nothing with lasting results. Minor improvements, but not sustainable. Years later, same battle. Another reason why I don't believe in luck. 

[Ian Hogg]

It may be that you are too far gone for this to help but this method certainly helped my elbow tendonitis which I had tried many other non-surgical methods including rest to get rid of. I'm not an expert but for tendonitis type issues I really like the approach that Louie Simmons (a Powerlifter) of Westside Barbell uses called Overspeed Eccentrics. I knew eccentrics were supposed to be good for tendons but had never heard of doing them at high speed (ie as fast as possible) I have never really heard of anyone else using it or talking about it.
It basically involves using resistance bands to speed up the eccentric portion of a movement with high repetitions, the idea being to basically bounce off the tendon at full extension to strengthen and hypertrophy the tendons rather than relying on using muscular effort to return the limb. From the blog hyperlinked below "The object is to not use muscular force to perform the repetitions but to use the energy from the over-speed eccentric. By doing so the muscular contraction is minimal, putting the strain on the connective tissue to absorb the energy and transfer it. The connective tissue and tendons do this by deforming and reforming. The bigger the deform the bigger the reform and if we perform this under a long enough time, the tissue will hypertrophy." 

Here is their physio John Quint demonstrating an exercise for the elbow tendons. I used the opposite of this action ie pulling up and releasing under resistance to help my inner elbow tendonitis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHQG-npe1YE

and here is a blog with a bit more detail about it

http://johnquintnmt.com/2015/07/a-solution-to-tendonitis-issues-westside-barbell/

Louie Simmons himself uses it to keep his knees in trim after decades of carrying out extremely heavy squats. 

He talks about it here from about 1 min 15s on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqsolpxSs2g

Hope it is of some use I did a lot of research on tendon hypertrophy and they were the only ones I found who mentioned this particular technique.

 

[Mark Collins]

Interesting info on what the powerlifters do. Successful tendon rehab is all about load management. First you need to build isometric strength, then isotonic then plyometrics and overall volume. The bands are plyometric exercises so if you do these first without building an isometric and isotnic foundation your tendon will blow up. Especially elbow tendons. If you can do band plyometrics and benefit from them it confirms that you only have mild tendonopathy. If you have a reactive tendon you will suffer with a flare up of symptoms.

I have found it interesting that Coach's program fits the tendon rehab guidelines really well. There are lots of exercises that build isometric and isotonic strength and then the more explosive movements are added when the foundation is built.

We always want the magic pill or treatment to fix our tendons. Unfortunately there is none at this stage. So we can only manage the load and be patient until the tendon adapts, which can take years.

[Eva Pelegrin]

Isometric > isotonic > plyometric. It doesn't get any better than that. 
Manage the load + indefinite PATIENCE." Can't argue with this formula either!

I've only been at it for 4 years, so I know what not to do: Stop training. Because when I do stop, I end up weaker and still in pain. Over a 4-year period I've taken 3, 6, even 12-month training breaks, for nothing really, because the symptoms remain even when "resting."I suspect is due to my computer use as well. I did a nerve study and all is normal. The silver lining of my experience is that I've develop a sixth sense about pain, types of pains and pain intensity. Needless to say I am hyper sensitive to assessing and managing the loads, day by day. I'm 3-months into Foundations and I haven't lost hope. 

[Mark Collins]

6 hours ago, Eva Pelegrin said:

Isometric > isotonic > plyometric. It doesn't get any better than that. 
Manage the load + indefinite PATIENCE." Can't argue with this formula either!

I've only been at it for 4 years, so I know what not to do: Stop training. Because when I do stop, I end up weaker and still in pain. Over a 4-year period I've taken 3, 6, even 12-month training breaks, for nothing really, because the symptoms remain even when "resting."I suspect is due to my computer use as well. I did a nerve study and all is normal. The silver lining of my experience is that I've develop a sixth sense about pain, types of pains and pain intensity. Needless to say I am hyper sensitive to assessing and managing the loads, day by day. I'm 3-months into Foundations and I haven't lost hope. 

Unless you have an acute flare up where the pain is 6-7/10 constant and causing you lost sleep rest is the worst thing to do. At most 2 weeks rest is enough for acute flare ups. 

Tendons are frustrating beasts. I think you are on the right track with Foundation + patience and you will get there.

 

[ASForum]

On 4/1/2016 at 2:35 AM, Zach Armijo said:

as well as constant heat. Frequently applied zheng gu shui is also a lifesaver. Having my share of injuries as well as treating a friend's ruptured tendon when climbing.

 

On 4/1/2016 at 2:35 AM, Zach Armijo said:

I can't speak on the issues of the knee, but tendons need good blood flow for proper rehab. One of my students  does every kind of body work, acupuncture, cupping, scraping, stim unit, etc... you can think of. Expedited my recovery faster than any conventional (Western) approach.  

I can vouch for some of these kind of ancient therapies. I've myself had Ayurvedic treatment using Herbs & Oils {these are engineered to stimulate nutritional healing of the joints/ tendons & such tissues etc} applied locally to help heal my knee / meniscus issues faster; where the only thing my Ortho Surgeon uncle could offer me were anti inflam & pain meds; which i avoided beyond initial Ski Fall Knee Twist weeks. 

[Mark Goedeke]

For elbow tendonitis, the tyler twist with a flexbar and stopping pullups and starting Foundation fixed me in 3 months.

[Alejandro Gjezi 135322]

Hey guys! How are you all, it's great to see this post is kept alive... Since coach Sommer stopped users from using their Facebook to sign in I got lost from my thread(s)
As for how things are going let me say this... Right knee almost as good as new (no troubles and mild to energetic training, although it's getting a lot of extra work due to the other one)

Left knee is worse than ever after a fall and bad landing (abrupt) I had in my Christmas vacations... Out from sports again, and this time it's for good till I find some ultimate fix

I am definitely thinking incorporating stem cells to my new (obviously invasive) treatment

PRP and tb500+bpc157 too, as they all DID WORK proven (radiological findings before and after their use showed a smaller area of scar tissue (2mm's less than original)
However, after my reinjury the "old scarification" came back strong :/

Thing is, that dead tissue-area needs to go, and I'll undergo a VERY slow and comprehensive rehab after that to get me back to my old highflying vertical, hopefully...

Now, for all you guys in the USA, could you find some info about TENEX procedure, preferably in the knee? It sounds great in theory, and i'm not risking open surgery unless it's the only way out of this shithole, but i'd like to know if it's just good markeing...Gasol supposedly did it for his knees along with stem cells (and I'm sure he, too, used peptides as most high ranking athletes use them a lot) thing is... How much does it work? Who are the best and cheapest doctors that do it?

A guy in another forum suggested to find one that does it in his own clinic, not in a private hospital, since it will be much less expensive and it's a procedure that does not need all the "operation room" stuff...
Since I live in Europe and it would cost a shitton of money trying to go there, for it to ultimately fail I am being very sceptical and pedantic, so if ANYBODY knows ANYTHING about it or ANYBODY who did it successfully (or not, just curious about the procedure) PLEASE tell... 
 

Edited June 27, 2016 by Alejandro Gjezi 135322
Wrong sentence