Further discussion on issues with veganism

[Tom Bol]

Total elimination for the rest of your life? I don't think it needs to be called anything specific. What kind of rice?

It sounds extremely boring and unappetizing to me, but I really really like food of different kinds and ethnic varieties since I've traveled literally around the world. My mom's husband eats like a bird, just because he's simply not interested in eating.

Would there be a specific goal in mind such as : preservation of muscle mass, high energy, mental focus, etc? What you're describing would be sufficient to survive. Not sure how good it would be for building and/or sustaining strength or muscle tissue since that's not my expertise. Anyone care to elaborate on the specifics of what Aspirant is looking for?

Yes I will gladly elaborate!

 

White basmati rice, but also Potatoes and others as block starch/carbs. I honestly don't care for having various flavours in my diet, I don't crave tasty food, I like food to taste good but don't need to indulge in it I'm also not too interested in it, for example I once ate sphaghetti bolognese for 3 months, I cooked masses of it one weekend then froze it all in lock boxes, that way I could quickly cook up pasta, heat the bolognese up and get eating out of the way while it still tasted good. I know though if I don't plan meals etc. I fall flat on my face because I end up extremely hungry then don't know what to eat and end up binging on trash food from the local store, I also can't stand cooking.

 

My goal in mind is speed & ease of cooking (pressure cooker), convenience, cheapness and I would like to build and sustain muscle mass, I would like to be training twice daily, I am also travelling a lot, no problem me taking the pressure cooker with me, induction plate, some beans and yellow split mung bean, can train and cook it up in a hotel room!

 

I'm currently moving house so this is all in the pipeline!

Edited November 11, 2015 by Aspirant

[Doug Grainger]

You need to make sure you are getting a diverse mixture of vegetables and fruit in order to get adequate amounts of all the micronutrients (vitamins & minerals). Ideally, anyway. I don't relate well to people who don't enjoy food. I just don't understand it.

So, if you added carrots, squash, and broccoli or cauliflower to your rice and beans, you would probably hit most of the most important micros in a single meal. Go heavy on the curry powder, and you will have a decent daal.

[Sarah Gleeson]

Agree with Vinca. If you're just not into food and cooking, I'd probably go down the road of mass cooking too. Wish I had that problem Basmati rice is delicious though.

As far as the building and maintaining muscle, that will probably have to be an experiment. I build and maintain muscle pretty well, so I do perfectly fine with a higher carbohydrate concentration. Plus, I don't crave high amounts of meat. Maybe once a week or so.

I also travel constantly, so having pre made food is almost a must. Luckily, my airline provides crew meals in certain situations and has a decent selection. It would be SO nice to cook my own food on the road. Alas, only so much room in the luggage so I bring my Jungle Gym straps and stretch cord.

Give your idea a try and see how you're feeling. If able, maybe get some body composition assessments before and a few weeks in to see how your lean mass holds up. Best of luck! Please report back!

[Ronnicky Roy]

I've read Diet Cults. It's definitely a good read.

[GoldenEagle]

Just for sake of information and if anyone happens to be wondering here is what I typically eat everyday:
 

Breakfast- Two or three servings of instant apple cinnamon oatmeal with a tablespoon of ground flaxseed or flaxseed meal made with apple juice, water, or plain almond milk.  I typically drink a glass of water and or some fruit juice. Plus a serving of either Odwalla's Superfood, or Naked's Green Machine.

 

Lunch: An Amy's non-dairy bean in rice burrito with a glass of water. Sometimes I have two black bean and brown rice burritos from Chipotle. (At the register each burrito is charged as "Two sides" and typically cost less than two bucks. If you add the arugula lettuce to the burrito, the lettuce becomes a third side, but an extra scoop of beans isn't charged as an additional side.)

 

Pre-workout: A Chocolate brownie Cliff bar

 

Post workout protein shake: is made with an eight ounce serving of chocolate almond milk and sometime four ounces of plain almond milk. The protein powder I use is made by HealthForce or AmazingGrass

 

Dinner/Supper: Amy's, low sodium, lentil soup with the following spices added habanero powder, garlic powder, white sage, ginger powder, and a tablespoon of chia seed. On top of the lentil soup is a handful of raw spinach. Underneath the lentil soup is a bedding of spelt grain, rye, and flaxseed bread.

 

I sometimes have a handmade "Cheese" pizza that I make myself or go to a local pizza place that makes a vegan pizza. In regards to pizza most big name pizza places don't offer a vegan "Cheese" option but will make a pizza without the dairy cheese and all the vegetables you want. When I do make my own pizza a I typically use the "cheese" made from the brand Daiya.

 

Snacks tend to be any of the following: Five medjool dates with some dark chocolate, one or two handfuls of a raw nut trail mix(Almonds, peanuts, walnuts, cashews, sunflower seeds, pieces of fig, raisins, and coconut flakes)

 

Personally speaking I have followed the vegan lifestyle for several years and got tired of the mock "meats" found in the refrigerated or frozen areas of grocery stores. Go to the following web site for all of the "Accidently" vegan food items found in the grocery store aisles. The only vitamin supplement I take on a semi-regular basis is a chew able methylcobalamin made by Jarrow Forumlas. As I have previously stated in another thread...methylcobalamin is the active form of cobalamin. My reasoning behind supplementing the active form of cobalamin rather than the inactive form, cyanocobalamin, is simple...it is easier for the body to deal with. Less stress for the body the has to deal with the more energy I have.

For anyone wondering...How to make almond"milk."

[ASForum]

To each his own  

 

Here's some more info on Performing Athletes: 

 

http://metro.co.uk/2015/08/20/15-vegan-bodybuilders-proving-that-you-can-be-meat-free-and-strong-5349931/

[Frankincensed]

To each his own

 

Here's some more info on Performing Athletes: 

 

http://metro.co.uk/2015/08/20/15-vegan-bodybuilders-proving-that-you-can-be-meat-free-and-strong-5349931/

 

Vegetables with a side of steroids!

Edited December 16, 2015 by Frankincensed

[Ronnicky Roy]

Honestly, just reading the book "Diet Cults" will go a long way

[Daniel Taylor-Shaut]

Just for sake of information and if anyone happens to be wondering here is what I typically eat everyday:

 

Breakfast- Two or three servings of instant apple cinnamon oatmeal with a tablespoon of ground flaxseed or flaxseed meal made with apple juice, water, or plain almond milk.  I typically drink a glass of water and or some fruit juice. Plus a serving of either Odwalla's Superfood, or Naked's Green Machine.

 

Lunch: An Amy's non-dairy bean in rice burrito with a glass of water. Sometimes I have two black bean and brown rice burritos from Chipotle. (At the register each burrito is charged as "Two sides" and typically cost less than two bucks. If you add the arugula lettuce to the burrito, the lettuce becomes a third side, but an extra scoop of beans isn't charged as an additional side.)

 

Pre-workout: A Chocolate brownie Cliff bar

 

Post workout protein shake: is made with an eight ounce serving of chocolate almond milk and sometime four ounces of plain almond milk. The protein powder I use is made by HealthForce or AmazingGrass

 

Dinner/Supper: Amy's, low sodium, lentil soup with the following spices added habanero powder, garlic powder, white sage, ginger powder, and a tablespoon of chia seed. On top of the lentil soup is a handful of raw spinach. Underneath the lentil soup is a bedding of spelt grain, rye, and flaxseed bread.

 

I sometimes have a handmade "Cheese" pizza that I make myself or go to a local pizza place that makes a vegan pizza. In regards to pizza most big name pizza places don't offer a vegan "Cheese" option but will make a pizza without the dairy cheese and all the vegetables you want. When I do make my own pizza a I typically use the "cheese" made from the brand Daiya.

 

Snacks tend to be any of the following: Five medjool dates with some dark chocolate, one or two handfuls of a raw nut trail mix(Almonds, peanuts, walnuts, cashews, sunflower seeds, pieces of fig, raisins, and coconut flakes)

 

Personally speaking I have followed the vegan lifestyle for several years and got tired of the mock "meats" found in the refrigerated or frozen areas of grocery stores. Go to the following web site for all of the "Accidently" vegan food items found in the grocery store aisles. The only vitamin supplement I take on a semi-regular basis is a chew able methylcobalamin made by Jarrow Forumlas. As I have previously stated in another thread...methylcobalamin is the active form of cobalamin. My reasoning behind supplementing the active form of cobalamin rather than the inactive form, cyanocobalamin, is simple...it is easier for the body to deal with. Less stress for the body the has to deal with the more energy I have.

For anyone wondering...How to make almond"milk."

Two questions: Isn't that a lot of processed or packaged food, to which I question the health and nutritional benefit? Also, does such a diet keep you full? I've been "vegan" before and I've tried it recently after moving back state-side. When I was in the Peace Corps in Africa, being vegan was more a response to circumstance, because I made shit pay as a volunteer and meat (as everyone knows) is more expensive than beans and grains, but I never found myself satiated or lean when eating this way. To this day, it still happens to be the case. What is more, from a performance standpoint I found that the amount of "carbs" or grains I ended up eating definitely was more than was necessary. Yes, I know there's the argument of just eating more quantity, but one can only truly consume so much volume before your stomach starts 'rejecting' that volume. I've certainly considered veganism due to the 'ethical' arguments, which I have sense enough to not get into on this forum, nor do I want to at all (because I'd rather oogle videos of athletes doing senders or chest rolls and daydreaming about the day that'll come), but I'm just wondering how people manage to stay full and lean on a vegan diet because it's beyond me of how to do that.

 

[ASForum]

Vegetables with a side of steroids!

You are accusing all of them? Good luck. 

 

Here's another who I think you can accuse. She's won many titles. 

 

http://www.greatveganathletes.com/tia-blanco-vegan-surfer

[Tom Bol]

Watching over this topic with great interest:

 

 

beans and grains, but I never found myself satiated or lean when eating this way. To this day, it still happens to be the case. What is more, from a performance standpoint I found that the amount of "carbs" or grains I ended up eating definitely was more than was necessary. Yes, I know there's the argument of just eating more quantity, but one can only truly consume so much volume before your stomach starts 'rejecting' that volume.

 

 

This has actually been my exact experience when trying a diet based on beans and grains.

 

Next year I am going to give another serious crack at it and see how I go, interested to see the results when I stick at it.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Aspirant

[The Hound]

Watching over this topic with great interest:

 

 

This has actually been my exact experience when trying a diet based on beans and grains.

 

Next year I am going to give another serious crack at it and see how I go, interested to see the results when I stick at it.

im not sure why you would want to base your diet around beans and grains. this is a "poor man's" diet where the only goal is surviving (no offense if you're poor), not a diet of thriving and growing

[Tom Bol]

im not sure why you would want to base your diet around beans and grains. this is a "poor man's" diet where the only goal is surviving (no offense if you're poor), not a diet of thriving and growing

 

Well I'd like to be eating yellow split mung beans (high in protein) and white basmati rice, so kitchari as a staple diet, supplemented with vegetables..

 

I want to eat less if no meat eventually..

Edited December 19, 2015 by Aspirant

[Ronnicky Roy]

As far as nutrition is concerned, potatoes and beans are both good "bang for you buck" foods. So is kale and rice

[The Hound]

As far as nutrition is concerned, potatoes and beans are both good "bang for you buck" foods. So is kale and rice

I agree with potatoes and white rice, as long as they're very well cooked. beans are a very poor protein source, there is a reason why they're so popular in developing countries

[Tom Bol]

I agree with potatoes and white rice, as long as they're very well cooked. beans are a very poor protein source, there is a reason why they're so popular in developing countries

 

Surely that disproves what you are saying? Since many people thrive with that diet in those countries while many Americans are obese, gymnasts aside that is often where a lot of dietary information stems from in the US.

 

Look I visited the Shaolin valley 10 years ago and saw thousands of Chinese martial artists many of them doing incredible feats of gymnastics, they had a diet of what consisted of very little to no meat (since it is so rare and very expensive in China), which is substituted by soy and other vegetarian proteins.

 

I am also looking right now at the back of a packet of yellow split mung beans the typical nutrional value uncooked is 30.3g of protein per 100g, that's nearly as much as a filet of chicken breast?

Edited December 20, 2015 by Aspirant

[Andrew Long]

amount of protein or the amount of a nutrient inside of something doesnt dictate the amount your body will absorb.  i know vegans who are vitamin b12 deficient because they are trying to get their b12 from spirulina, which has b vitamins in it but they are unable to absorb it.

[The Hound]

Surely that disproves what you are saying? Since many people thrive with that diet in those countries while many Americans are obese, gymnasts aside that is often where a lot of dietary information stems from in the US.

 

Look I visited the Shaolin valley 10 years ago and saw thousands of Chinese martial artists many of them doing incredible feats of gymnastics, they had a diet of what consisted of very little to no meat (since it is so rare and very expensive in China), which is substituted by soy and other vegetarian proteins.

 

I am also looking right now at the back of a packet of yellow split mung beans the typical nutrional value uncooked is 30.3g of protein per 100g, that's nearly as much as a filet of chicken breast?

 

like i said earlier. nations where the large majority of the diet is grains and beans are not "thriving". they're probably developing nations where their only goal is survival. and sure, it might say beans provide a lot of protein on the nutritional info. its inferior quality and highly indigestible protein. im not advocating for muscle meats either here. an example of a "thriving" group in a third world area would be the masai tribe i guess. average male height is probably about 6 feet tall, they're consuming vast quantities of milk. the dutch also used to be some of the shortest europeans. now their diet is large quantities of dairy and the average male height is also something like 6 feet tall now

Edited December 20, 2015 by The Hound

[Doug Grainger]

Nope amino acids are the same chemicals, regardless of what food provides them.

[The Hound]

Nope amino acids are the same chemicals, regardless of what food provides them.

 

sure, but it's the bioavailability of the amino acids and the digestibility that matters

[Tom Bol]

sure, but it's the bioavailability of the amino acids and the digestibility that matters

 

Did I forget to mention I'd be taking sublingual B12 even if I eat meat? Btw eating meat does not guarantee you will absorb B12 well, my friend plus all his siblings have to have B12 injections and they eat a fair amount of meat.

[The Hound]

Did I forget to mention I'd be taking sublingual B12 even if I eat meat? Btw eating meat does not guarantee you will absorb B12 well, my friend plus all his siblings have to have B12 injections and they eat a fair amount of meat.

the b12 deficiency most likely stems from a result of hypothyroidism. both excessive muscle meat consumption and a protein deficiency can accentuate this. nowhere did I recommend muscle meats for the b vitamin anyways. beef liver and oysters and other shell fish along with adequate thyroid function will ensure proper b vitamins

[Ronnicky Roy]

I agree with potatoes and white rice, as long as they're very well cooked. beans are a very poor protein source, there is a reason why they're so popular in developing countries

Oh, I'm not saying anyone should live that way. Just that in the case of a famine, when you look at foods that offer the most well rounded amount of nutrients and satiate. Beans and potatoes are good options. Thats why I said bang for your buck.

[Matthew Jefferys]

amount of protein or the amount of a nutrient inside of something doesnt dictate the amount your body will absorb.  i know vegans who are vitamin b12 deficient because they are trying to get their b12 from spirulina, which has b vitamins in it but they are unable to absorb it.

To my knowledge, there is no bioactive cobalamin in Arthrospira cyanobacteria. As for protein, it's always decomposed into amino acids first, and their bioavailability is affected by other compounds present, not whether the source is animal, plant or fungi. Eggs contain a compound that interferes with methionine absorption, but I can't remember what it is. That's about the extent of it. Amino acids are amino acids.

[ASForum]

Well I'd like to be eating yellow split mung beans (high in protein) and white basmati rice, so kitchari as a staple diet, supplemented with vegetables..

 

I want to eat less if no meat eventually..

It is said that Kitchari i.e. Mung Beans + Rice is the most "easy to absorb" food/ protein on the planet.