GST for Endurance Athletes

[Peter Osborne]

Hi All,

I am beginning GST in order to do strength training for rock and alpine climbing/mountaineering. I am also an endurance runner (marathons and moving towards my first 100k this year) and was wondering if anyone has had any success incorporating GST into an endurance training program similar to Crossfit Endurance (https://powerspeedendurance.com/).  I have experience with Crossfit but feel the training in GST is more applicable to the requirements of a climber.   

I was thinking programming my week with 2 GST Days + 3 Endurance Days with GST component (do you recommend any particular training which could compliment Endurance training?).  Do you think I will be able to progress in GST with this scheduling? Do you recommend including the stretching components each day(i currently do 15-45mins of mobility each night as I wind down).

Any and all help would be great!

Best,
Peter

 

 

 

[Anders Löfgren]

Hi, I have tried Crossfit Endurance for ultra running and I think you can replace the crossfit part with GST, no problem.

I am just doing a re-start and plan myself to run 3 times per week and do Foundation 2times per week. However I will not do crossfit endurance style of running any more.

I would get the stretch serie and add that after running. For me who has got a bad back, doing the Bridge stretch after running feels so good. 

[Eva Pelegrin]

Welcome Peter!
2 GST days/week is a great start. You're thinking on the right track. With my endurance athletes, we program 1-2 sessions a week of in-depth mobility sessions. You may want to take a look at the Stretch Series, see which one is more in line with your mobility deficits, and go with that one (at first). This may not be the case for you, but I've seen a lack of thoracic mobility in many runners and thri. When you feed the spinal motion from the top down it's a a game changer in performance and the Thoracic Bridge course is good for that. Obviously, you need good joint mobility everywhere.

Look forward to hearing what @Douglas Wadle and others have to say.

[Peter Osborne]

Hi Eva - Thanks for the welcome and the quick response!  I think i'll pick up the Fundamentals series as I know I am deficient in almost all areas (long-long-long hours sitting at work).  I'm hoping the fundamentals - combined/substituted with my existing CFE exercises will be a good transition.  I'll run through the fundamentals a few times and then, once I'm ready, I'll jump into the foundation programme. I'm really happy to have found GST!   I have really wanted a long-term progressive programming for a long time.  I found Crossfit way to focused on achieving Rx weight etc which wasn't always right for me. Also as a climber I was always way too gassed after a Crossfit Intense workout to actually go climbing - which is the point!!!

 

Thanks again 

Best,

Peter

Edited June 1, 2016 by Peter Osborne

[Eva Pelegrin]

Great to hear Peter!
Warning: I was very excited when I started and my interest in GST and dedication only keeps growing. That's how good it is. I'm picky and don't give compliments often, but Coach and his team are outstanding, first-class!! 

[Peter Osborne]

6 hours ago, Anders Löfgren said:

Hi, I have tried Crossfit Endurance for ultra running and I think you can replace the crossfit part with GST, no problem.

I am just doing a re-start and plan myself to run 3 times per week and do Foundation 2times per week. However I will not do crossfit endurance style of running any more.

I would get the stretch serie and add that after running. For me who has got a bad back, doing the Bridge stretch after running feels so good. 

Anders - great to hear that you are having success with Endurance and CFE. You mentioned you are not doing the CFE running any more? Could I ask why? Are you doing traditional endurance training now?

I just registered for the fundamental and did the first session after my run tonight.  Felt great. 

Thanks for the help,

Peter

[Douglas Wadle]

Hi Peter, I will chime in here because I like any topic regarding endurance sports.  I will start with the caveat that I neither am a climber, nor have any experience with the crossfit endurance program.  What I will mention briefly, is what I do as an endurance athlete, because that is my specialty, and because I feel GST has been a big help in this regard.  As introduction, I do cross country ski marathons in the winter, as well as some ski mountaineering, though less and less of that as time goes on.  During the rest of the year I run ultras in the mountains, both formal races, as well as just expeditionary fun stuff.  Things like Rim to Rim to Rim in the Grand Canyon, Zion traverse, and this summer a run across the Beartooth plateau, stretching 100 miles over 3 days.

GST has been an asset in a few ways.  First, the stretch program has really helped a lot of the tension created by running, such as shortened hamstrings, soleuses (solei?), and piriformis, not to mention others.  Secondly, the Foundation program is awesome.  It is my preferred strength training routine.  I do add in some sport-specific exercises such as deadlifting and squatting, as well as plyometric work, but I have completed the SLS component of foundation (i.e., I wouldn't necessarily recommend that unless you have progressed to that point, due to injury risk).  I like to be a well-rounded athlete, and enjoy multiple other sports, including soccer, softball, playing with kids, etc, so the strength and mobility improvements from GST carry over into all these aspects and help me avoid being the skinny little runner who can't do a pull-up!  The core strength is very helpful on fast downhills, as is the balance and ankle mobility for injury prevention and prehab.  The strength is a tremendous boon in cross country skiing with the importance of a strong core for poling, strong shoulders and back for poling, and powerful legs for skiing.  In short, it just helps you move better.

Of course all good things have drawbacks as well.  As a climber these may not apply as much as to a runner.  My training is based around blocks that at times are too intense to allow much GST.  So then I put GST in maintenance mode.  For instance, right now I am peaking on my miles for a 50 mile race in 3 weeks.  I ran 80 miles over memorial day weekend (16,000 feet of elevation gain), and a fast 10 mile tempo run today.  I can assure you, if I trained my usual GST I would be overtrained quickly.  So I do a 2 days split and continue my movement and stretch routine, which keeps me from losing ground, but also have the downside of not making much progress for may and june, and january and february.  The rest of the year, 2 full days of GST is fine, meshes with my training, and I am able to progress nicely.  

I hope that information is helpful for you, and good luck with your training.  

[Mark Collins]

Foundation is perfect for long distance runners. I would only do GST twice a week performing 4 exercises one day and 3 the other. I treat several ultra endurance runners. Those that try to do everything end up overtraining and get injured. The ones that perform 1-2 strength sessions a week always have less injuries. Less is more to compliment the endurance training.

[Stephan Versendaal]

Interesting topic! I wanted to start one myself because I have the same questions. I do Crossfit and am training for a marathon (CFE style). 

Right now I started the fundementals. I'm also 41 years old with years and yeards of office work..

What stretch series should I start and how much time it's gonna take on daily/weekly basis?

[Douglas Wadle]

Stephan, while I think you would ideally do all 3 stretch courses, the ones most specific to running are the middle split and front split.  The FS course addresses hamstrings and calves, while the MS addresses the hip mobility, things like the piriformis and adductors.   

[Peter Osborne]

Douglas - thanks for the very informative response. Once i've completed the fundamentals i'll make sure to get the foundation program and stretch routines as is looks like people really enjoy them. From what i've read - the stretch routines are programmed once a week. Do you typically complete these on a day with a endurance component? Say as a cool down? Or would this be programmed on its own day? 

[Douglas Wadle]

Greetings, Peter.  The stretch routines are once per week (i.e. for 3 of them, that would be 3 days per week).  I don't usually do them the same day as a long run.  I usually just do some limbering with a few key elements of the stretch series after runs, then do the full stretch series in the evenings on other days, or after strength workouts.  Really helps with the tightness and restless legs us runners get in bed in the evening.

[Daniel Taylor-Shaut]

Peter, there are also some dedicated rock climbers who are in the works of opening a GST gym in Arizona called Elevated Gymnastics Strength Training (https://www.facebook.com/ElevatedGST/?fref=ts). You could check them out on Facebook and maybe drop them a line. Not sure if they check the forums much, but they're affiliates of GB so they might offer up some more specific insights

[Anders Löfgren]

15 hours ago, Peter Osborne said:

Anders - great to hear that you are having success with Endurance and CFE. You mentioned you are not doing the CFE running any more? Could I ask why? Are you doing traditional endurance training now?

I just registered for the fundamental and did the first session after my run tonight.  Felt great. 

Thanks for the help,

Peter

I stopped doing CFE for three reasons:

1. My body couldn't take the intensity, especially not my hamstrings and back.

2. When I got to longer distances, I got cramp problems. 

3. I love running long distances and one of the best things in life is going out running for hours in the forest. 

My last long race was a 100 miles trail run and I trained a little opposite way than CFE. Only 1-2 runs per week, but always long distances 3-5 hours.

Now I have had back problems and cannot run long distances at all  but I hope to het back in the saddle. 

 

 

[Mark Collins]

It is better to do all three stretch series as it covers the whole body. Most people forget you need mobile shoulders and thoracic spine to run well. If you have a stiff thoracic spine and ribs it will reduce the effeciency of breathing.