Why hasn't BtGB caught on?

[Neal Winkler]

The book has been out for over a year now. Why hasn't the internet strength and conditioning community caught on to the methods? Why isn't every strength guru with a blog or podcast clamoring to get interviews with Coach Sommer?

I was just looking at the bodyweight article section at dragondoor and I seen a review of the naked warrior by Gray Cook, a product making, "famous" strength and conditioning guru. If he likes the naked warrior you would think he would be going bananas over Coaches book. But there's barely been a peep from the blogosphere.

[Longshanks]

I completely agree. I tried Pavels stuff and it didn't really do me much justice and I just got injured. His whole hype was just about tensing you're core and ... TADAAAAA you're a lot stronger overnight. I've had much better consistent improvements from coach Sommer's BtGB.

[Blairbob]

Because gymnastics takes patience.

There was some news after it's release but over time, interest wanes besides Coach Sommer's gymnastics duties.

[Cole Dano]

Used with intelligence Pavel's stuff is right on, but like any tool its two sided.

DD's approach seems to be toward simple programs that people can do in their off time without having to think about it too much.

Take Naked Warrior for example, it explains how to create tension (very nicely IMHO) and then gives a very simple 2 exercise program. Most (but not all!) of Pavel's programs follow this format. There is also the DD dose of exotic hype, in this case a Soviet flavor. In fact the programs are very good and there is at least an attempt to bring some 'body consciousness' into the equation with the tension talk.

Its really entry level stuff though and anyone can do it. The BtGB program is much more complete but it also requires 1)much more thought about how to program. Even following the WOD's for a beginner will require a fair amount of creativity to find a way to do them. 2)The exercises require more skill, patience, dedication to master. 3)They take what has unfortunately become a rare combination of both strength and flexibility. In fact they help create a very functional body, but take a look around, most people just don't care.

Coach Sommer's intro to BtGB talks about how he went downhill when he got into 'mainstream' fitness and lifting. Someone already with the mainstream mentality will have a hard time making the transition. Its very hard on the ego, almost like starting over from zero. Thank goodness for folks here like Slizardman who show 'though' guys can do it. I'm on the opposite end, skinny and bendy. Thankfully years of yoga and boardsports have given me a very patient approach, and i'm not put off by not being able to do things the first time or even the hundredth.

I agree, in a more ideal fitness culture Coach Sommer's book really should be the most talked about thing since sliced bread. We have a long way to go though. In fact thanks to Coach Sommer the thought of gymnastic style exercise being something someone can continue with or even start in adulthood is out there. Pavel, Crossfit etc have helped to create the groundswell but Sommer is the pinnacle of where this is at now. Perhaps the next generation of fitness will find this more 'organic' approach to have more weight behind it. For now, this is the vanguard, stand proud!

[Cole Dano]

On a side note, if you dig into Coach's early posts, he mentions an article (BtGB intro) which was to be published on DD. Later it became clear that it wasn't to be. Coach is a very decent man so he's never said why, but you have to wonder, what would have happened if DD gave him more backing.

[Coach Sommer]

Why hasn't BtGB caught on? ...

I suppose that will depend on your definition of "caught on".

All of Gymnastic Bodies' growth has been soley by word of mouth. To date, I have engaged in no advertising whatsoever. I have also refused to follow what seems to have become today's standard methods of promotion; no unsubstantiated claims, no over the top dreams of instant success, no hired fitness models, no deluge of email advertisements filled with hype.

Yet despite this, currently the Gymnastic Bodies materials are in use in 50 countries around the world. The GB YouTube videos have had over 1,000,000 views. And the GB forum is one of the most in depth and active, anywhere in the world. While not earth shattering by some standards, I am pleased with the progress to date.

It also bears remembering that long term success is always built upon a solid foundation. The hot new fad of today is often relegated to the wisps of memory tomorrow when the public discovers that their newest favorite was simply the result of creative advertising and was in reality actually devoid of effective content.

What should you do if you would like to see BtGB continue to grow in popularity? Simple. Just keep training hard with intelligent application of the Gymnastic Body principles and then continue to spread the word when you experience success. The cream always rises to the top.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Nick Van Bockxmeer]

While we can all agree that the GymnasticsBodies training method gives incredible results, I think it simply requires too much effort and dedication for the general fitness population. I think coach has hit the nail on the head with the combination of brutal upper and core strength, lower body explosiveness and active joint flexiblity. Its a shame that most people seem to use the weights/cardio approach, in what is really an amateur attempt at bodybuilding. Anyone can use weight machines and a treadmill. I think you have to really want to achieve progress with BtGB, I know that I am still working on the earlier progressions of most exercises after a full year of training.

[Richard Duelley]

Why hasn't BtGB caught on? ...

no hired fitness models,

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

lol your athletes are working great for that purpose! Maybe you could get some pictures from people on the board to use? 8)

I tell everyone that comes into the gym about BtGB (if they ask how to actually get stronger that is), had some guys last week ask about rings and I pointed them here.

[Coach Sommer]

I know that I am still working on the earlier progressions of most exercises after a full year of training.

If this is the case, I would assume that your programming is at fault. I would recommend that you either follow the GB WODs or the killroy70 program.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Razz]

Or maybe diet has problems as well.

[Longshanks]

I completely agree. With so many people wanting a 'quick fix' this type of training probably isn't that appealing to most. I imagine in a few years time when the majority of dedicated athletes on this forum are knocking out planche press-ups and front levers then word of mouth should escalate exponentially.

If I get to a respectable standard in the next couple of years I'll be happy to do a video raving about your methods, which should be all the more impressive due to my height and weight, like slizzardman. That's not to say I haven't already, but patience really does seem to be the name of the game for the respectable moves, and Ive only been at it 4months so far.

[Felipe]

I would like to buy the other books. Coach's knowledge must be saved for the next generations.

[Gregor]

I'm learning all the time. I'm still learning some element wich I learned them 2-3 years ago or even more to perfect them (they will never be perfect, it's only theoretical).

long learning elements:

- maltese 2 years for easiest variaton (in good form ofcourse), then just went exponantially to harder variations

- azarian 1 year

Short time learning:

-iron cross at first try

-kip to cross by accident at first try

-honma to cross by accident at first try

-inverted cross 2 month

So the patience is one of a best virtue of a gymnast.

[Neal Winkler]

Wanting a "quick fix" or other such things is certainly a flaw of the general fitness population but one can hardly say that the top strength coaches have such a problem.

[Longshanks]

Short time learning:

-iron cross at first try

-kip to cross by accident at first try

-honma to cross by accident at first try

-inverted cross 2 month

Show off! lol

[Joshua Naterman]

It's not Gregor's fault he's a mutant!

[Gregor]

It's not Gregor's fault he's a mutant!

hahaha, I wanted to show two big diffrences beatween my malteses and crosses. I was so angry I didn't know if it's better to laugh or cry from frustration. Two god damn years I didn't got the maltese, even my much weaker teammates got it.

BTW my teammates can feel how to hold the holds much better then me. If they would be so dedicated to work so hard on strength who knows.

I looked the pictures from my childhood, damn I was skiny kid, even for a gymnast. So skiny that I am ashamed :oops: Even those from my eighteens are not big, if I compare it to now.

Hard training, dedication,dreaming and don't hate the pain, make it your friend.

[Joshua Naterman]

That's perfect! That is exactly true. It's good to have someone here who has learned through experience that hard work can take them further than most of those with natural talent and a lesser work ethic!

[Ryan Libke]

BtGB has not caught on? It sure has with me. I could not wait for the first book, and I am eager for the following works to come out. I am sure that I am not alone.

In a fitness market that is full of junk equipment, gimmicks, and disengenuous claims, a quality approach will never have the quick splash that many fads or fancy machines might have. It doesn't really matter. Gymnastic strength training has been a while for a long, long time. Before gymnastics became a competitive sport, it was first and foremost a means to strengthen the body and the person. This was true for the Greeks, the Romans, and later in the European re-birth of the endeavor. Since most of us fans of BtGB are not competitive gymnasts, the manner of strength training advocated here in a sense revisits the prior purpose of gymnastics, albeit with a better understanding of training methodology on the part of Coach and some of the other learned forum members.

Not everyone is interested in strength training. For those who do, many like the society and conventions of the commercial health club. I think, however, there are many more people who would enjoy the BtGB approach than currently attend to it. Hopefully they will come to it in their own time. However, I would not want the intergrity of the program compromised for the sake of a rapid increase in participation.

[Jason Stein]

Why hasn't the internet strength and conditioning community caught on to the methods?

Triangle,

I'm not sure about the 'blogosphere,' but I know I've seen Coach Sommer's name, this site, and his book mentioned conversationally at various other S&C sites.

On a side note, if you dig into Coach's early posts, he mentions an article (BtGB intro) which was to be published on DD.

The article is on Dragon Door: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/229/

The Dragon Door forums are a promotional tool for their books, DVDs, seminars and other equipment. I can understand why they won't give much shine to other publishing ventures.

That said, I learned about Coach Sommer from his article on that site, so it served a good purpose in that regard.

best,

jason

[Cole Dano]

There was to be a second article on DD which wasn't published, its the intro to BtGB. I ran across mention of it when reading through some of the early posts on the forum.

I'm not speculating as to why it wasn't published just noting since Coach himself refers to it. It could have been either side that pulled the plug for any number of reasons. Its just an interesting sideline. Had the relationship continued their would have been more notoriety in all likelihood.

In any case the original article is something of a legend on the DD forum, and like yourself is what led me here, i think Slizz said the same and many others.

Reading Coaches own response to this thread though, i'd say he's doing it the right way.

[Joshua Naterman]

I definitely did find this through the dragon door article!

I think that it is not in Dragon Door's best interest to promote such a complete system, because once you have BtGB and it's future volumes, you really don't need much else. Some Pavel or Steve Maxwell kettlebell work, and perhaps Brooks Kubic's DInosaur training. At that point you really, honestly have a 100% complete library of fitness techniques and programs that work, and make your body stronger than anything else on the market. By publishing this series they would effectively kill their company's potential for growth. That's my personal opinion on the issues underneath whatever actually happened. I'd guess that this played out as a) they realized this and just didn't want to publish it anymore, or b) they realized this and wanted to change the format so that it wouldn't kill their future market, and Coach wouldn't go for it. I'm probably off, but these seem like they would be key factors to me with the limited insight I have.

[Neal Winkler]

Why hasn't the internet strength and conditioning community caught on to the methods?

Triangle,

I'm not sure about the 'blogosphere,' but I know I've seen Coach Sommer's name, this site, and his book mentioned conversationally at various other S&C sites.

That's good to hear. But I have large number of S&C blogs in my feeder and have yet to hear a peep from them. This still confuses me.

The exception is Robb Wolf's blog.

[Jason Stein]

Triangle,

Which blogs are you reading?

This type of question leads to larger questions, which may help answer yours.

Such as: why don't Level 1 North American athletes utilize rings or other gymnastic equipment for strength training?

Why in North America is gymnastics now only considered useful strength training for children?

Why are there not more (or any) gymnastics equipment (Swedish bars, rings, rope ... even quality pull-up bar set-ups for God's sake. A Smith machine or whatever is ridiculous.) in S&C centers and gyms?

Why don't American high schools include fundamental gymnastic exercises as part of their fitness curriculum?

This is all quite a change if you compare current attitudes to those of strong men and athletes up through the 60s.

I expect it's a result of an array of factors, among them Arthur Jones & Nautilus, bodybuilding's popularity, and liability.

My first exposure to any gymnastic equipment (Swedish bars, p-bars, pommel, even rope climbing) was only because Scott at Crossfit PDX had taken the time and spent the energy to track the stuff down.

In the US the training is still very much a niche, though hopefully Coach Sommer has the start of what'll be a Long Tail a la Chris Anderson.

best,

jason

[Neal Winkler]

Eric Cressey, Bill Hartman, Mike Robertson, Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Nick Tumminello, Dan John, and Matt Perryman off the top of my head.