Vibroplates any real use?

[Alvaro Antolinez]

I know how the marketing hipe (spell?) works , and how they tell you how you will be stronger just 10 min a day no effort , no sweat, blablabla

but a pt told me it is very usefull for tendon strenghtening. It was discovered with the people that uses Big pneumatic drills to open the street. It seems (he told me) that they have huge tendons due to the vibration.

Any truth in this? Any way to implement this training Or prehab with btgb if it happens to be truth?( im not into buying one, there is one allready at the gym)

thank you !

[Coach Sommer]

It was discovered with the people that uses Big pneumatic drills to open the street. It seems (he told me) that they have huge tendons due to the vibration. Any truth in this?

Yes, absolutely.

This type of training device actually has several uses. At the Olympic Training Center, we have used a small floor unit for a number of years during flexibility training; e.g. placing one foot up on the vibrating unit while in a split position. In addition to the aforementioned tendon strengthening, some studies have also shown that it increases bone density.

Years ago, I was visiting with a Soviet surgeon, attached to one of their competitive gymnastic teams, who used a handheld unit of this type to treat rotator cuff issues.

Previously these type of units where prohibitively expensive. However Soloflex now makes two different models which are much more reasonably priced.

Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

Apparently these things are awesome for flexibility development as well. FOr professional grade stuff without a HUGE budget, vibeplate.com has the best products on the market. They make one that is 72 inches long and 24 or 36 inches wide specifically for yoga and stretching! All their products can handle a minimum of 1200 lbs I think. Pretty beefcake, and the most expensive one is only 2 grand!They appear to be outstanding for developing explosive power. I want one SO BAD!

[sasquatch]

I bet it would be good to practice planche on those things

[griffdrc]

i curious about training handstands on them...

[Coach Sommer]

I'm curious about training handstands on them...

I have been curious about this as well.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Alvaro Antolinez]

Thank you coach! I´ll be investigating about this.

[Alvaro Antolinez]

There is one possible problem to be aware about vibration plates (I guess). I Know some heli pilots, and most of them develope back problems due to the vibrations of the choper. So SEATING directly over it maybe should be done with care at least with some frecuencies or intensities. I´m just generalizing here so it´s possible back problems are not an issue with this plates due to the difference in nature of the vibration, but as this is a new way of training(at least for some of us) I want to send this warning, just in case it applies (to be on the safe side at first).

Please correct me if I´m wrong!

[Joshua Naterman]

There is one possible problem to be aware about vibration plates (I guess). I Know some heli pilots, and most of them develope back problems due to the vibrations of the choper. So SEATING directly over it maybe should be done with care at least with some frecuencies or intensities. I´m just generalizing here so it´s possible back problems are not an issue with this plates due to the difference in nature of the vibration, but as this is a new way of training(at least for some of us) I want to send this warning, just in case it applies (to be on the safe side at first).

Please correct me if I´m wrong!

It's a completely different type of vibration. I mean, vibration is vibration, but you have to realize that the amplitude and velocity(directional motion) of the vibrations are so different in a helicopter that the ill effects of helicopter piloting should not be confused with possible problems coming from low amplitude vibration. Duration of exposure is also MASSIVELY different. Too much of anything is bad for you. I mean look at my elbow injuries! Doesn't mean I shouldn't planche, it just means I need to be smart about how I train the position and not do too much, too soon.

Also, keep in mind that a good unit will be adjustable, and will go down to at least 10hz. If you can't go down that low then you're not going to be able to aim for certain training effects. I'll go look up the numbers again, but there's no purpose in going past 45hz I don't think. Believe it or not, your body will not react the same way to 8-12hz as it will to 30-45hz. You get two completely different adaptations. There are either 3 or 4 adaptations you can get, and I'll have to post that tomorrow.

[Alvaro Antolinez]

I've been reading a bit about the heli crew back problems and it seems is more a lack of proper posture ( they flight leaning forward for seing better and due to the poor ergonomics of the cockpit), flight time( 1000 hours seating at the vibro plate is not going to be so comon I guess!), and lack of core strenght. So it seems that vibration is only one more factor on the equation.

Also I think you are right slizzard. The vibration is not going to be of the same kind.

I was too fast to throw that though to the forum, but I prefer to make mistakes on the safe side just in case! :wink:

[rubadub]

It's a completely different type of vibration. I mean, vibration is vibration, but you have to realize that the amplitude and velocity(directional motion) of the vibrations are so different in a helicopter that the ill effects of helicopter piloting should not be confused with possible problems coming from low amplitude vibration.

I have heard some cheaper vibration machines also generate the "wrong" vibration, or at best not optimum. Also I expect the pilots might be sitting in a relaxed state, while I imagine if I was doing say overhead presses on a vibration plate that I would be tensed all over, trying to fight the vibration.

[Joshua Naterman]

The "wrong vibration" is what I mentioned in an earlier post. It's kind of like a superspeed balance board/see saw. It's not good because it throws you from side to side, so to speak, as opposed to straight up and down. This loads the legs individually but does not do as good a job of loading the hips or the spine, because it is more of shifting your balance than of actual up and down movement. It's strange, and you can feel the difference between the two right away.

One of the big problems with the cheaper machines, besides pathetic weight capacity, is that they use this less optimal vibration because it is cheaper to manufacture. The main problem with this type of vibration is that the amplitude(how far the plate moves) changes significantly as you move away from the center of the plate. This limits the number of positions you can use effectively on such machines, and makes it far less optimal for stretching.

One of the big problems I see with the Soloflex machines is that they don't go below 30hz. For stretching, I believe you need to be in the 10-20hz range because after that you're moving too fast for the golgi tendons to relax. You do need a model that goes up to at least 45hz because that's where your explosive power gains happen, so these could be great for being able to train strength/power, though they do not list a weight capacity. I don't like not having a listed weight capacity.

Look at the specs of these. These are the highest quality machines out there, and some of the cheapest. Yea, there are cheaper home models, but they have low weight limits(250-350 lbs total, so for a guy like me who's already 225 that's horse shit worthless) and I don't know of one that doesn't utilize the "see-saw" vibration, which is inferior to the whole plate moving in the same direction at once according to pretty much every study that has compared the two methods of vibrating plates.

The big advantage to using these plates is that you can use added weight and even put other equipment on there, like dip bars or a pull up tower. I think there is a ton of potential in these devices that is not being realized because of closed-minded designs. These plates not only come with a rail system that you can use for rehab purposes, but they also have attachments for bands. The big platform lets you do things that you just can't do with anything else, like splits, ab wheel roll outs, PPP, etc. Your real benefits for lower body power come from using these machine with lots of added weight in quarter or half squat positions, and I think you'd see good results for Olympic lifters by holding a loaded bar at the beginning of a hang clean. Basically a vibrating shrug. Trigger extra power in the traps, shoulders, forearms, and other muscles that are involved in the pull! Some of this may not be able to offer extra benefits compared to current training methods but we will never know until someone tries it out.

Personally, I want the Yoga plate. Hell yea.

Check out the other advantages of the vibeplate.com line:

1. 5 standard sizes and models to choose from.

2. Larger weight capacity. Depending on the model, our weight limit will vary from 1200 to 1800 pounds.

3. Color choice comes in black. Other colors are available upon request..

4. Our platforms are powder coated.

5. Black rubber flooring tops all of our models.

6. Comes with attachments for tubing exercises, for the legs, arms, core, etc.

7. Because of size of the platform it gives the user more options to do more.

8. More Durable - not made out of plastic, wood or fiberglass.

9. Frequency control.

10. Built low to the ground only 5.5 inches high.

11. We can custom design.

12. Best Warranty on Market, limited lifetime on the frame.

13. Price by far.

14. MADE IN THE USA

Quote about the rail from vibeplate.com: "The Railing System is custom designed to be installed and removed in about 30 seconds. They are being used by seniors, athletes and medical professionals in rehab. Priced at our cost for VibePlate customers.."

[Razz]

Homemade vibroplate in handstand:

Do a handstand on a springboard that is upside down (this spring board will be rocking like a ring rocker, another use for it) have your coach hold your feet and then he jumps on the spring board while you push your shoulders.. gets pretty intense

slightly OT but just noticing that it can be done

[Joshua Naterman]

HAHAHAHA that would be so funny to watch!!! VIdeo!!!!

[jl5555]

I'm visiting my sister in New Jersey for the holidays and their local YMCA has a Power Board vibration trainer which caught my eye. Of course I came here to investigate. Based on the above I decided to give it a shot. Really interesting stuff. Using it is quite an experience and something that I can see taking time to acclimate to. The machine has high and low amplitude settings as well as various hertz rates, 30 to 50 hertz.

The concept of stretching on it seems natural. You really can't "feel" your tendons while its going so it seems to allow you to get into a deeper stretch. Tomorrow ill try a side split on it to see how that goes.

As for Coach's question about attempting HS on it below are two videos I made. Apologies for the form but the vibration really is something. I would have to spend more time just on that thing to say whether I thought it might help.

.

I

[Joshua Naterman]

A 2012 study in Norway found that low Hz settings bias the CNS towards recruiting slow twitch fibers and not fast twitch fibers, while 45 Hz biased the CNS towards recruiting fast twitch fibers and not slow twitch fibers.

 

In other words, the low frequency seems to train the CNS to lower activation threshold for slow motor groups, thereby making it even easier to turn them on, and somewhat more difficult to turn on the faster motor groups.

 

The high frequency made it easier to turn on faster motor groups and harder to turn on slower ones, which would improve one's ability to recruit the fastest, largest, most powerful motor groups. That's a good thing for power athletes.

[Amir Giles]

A 2012 study in Norway found that low Hz settings bias the CNS towards recruiting slow twitch fibers and not fast twitch fibers, while 45 Hz biased the CNS towards recruiting fast twitch fibers and not slow twitch fibers.

 

In other words, the low frequency seems to train the CNS to lower activation threshold for slow motor groups, thereby making it even easier to turn them on, and somewhat more difficult to turn on the faster motor groups.

 

The high frequency made it easier to turn on faster motor groups and harder to turn on slower ones, which would improve one's ability to recruit the fastest, largest, most powerful motor groups. That's a good thing for power athletes.

 

What if you are someone who struggles with the higher rep exercises?  Elsewhere it's been implied that over time you can train fast twitch muscles to do the job of slow twitch ones, right?  In which case the vibration plate might be more useful on a lower frequency perhaps?

[Daniel Burnham]

What if you are someone who struggles with the higher rep exercises? Elsewhere it's been implied that over time you can train fast twitch muscles to do the job of slow twitch ones, right? In which case the vibration plate might be more useful on a lower frequency perhaps?

Probably wouldn't help. Higher rep stuff is usually not associated with a problem of activation of muscle but rather the lack of metabolic endurance. However there may be some neural endurance issues that haven't been investigated.

[Amy Vogel]

This one is a bit cheaper than vibeplate plate but fixed at 30Hz. 

http://ridgeandcompany.com/current-customers/

 

I am leaning towards vibeplate.

[Adam Durst]

From what I understand.

The key is vertical motion.

Many cheaper and knock off ones move side to side or in horizontal circles or 8s.

There is heaps of evidence...but most of it is in Russian as the technology was developed as part of the Russian space program.