some resistance training after strength moves

[Felipe]

After handstand work, v-sit and planche holds, i want to add some simple conditioning exercise for resistance training (50-100 rep of push-up, crunch, squat).

Do strenuous resistance exercise after strength exercise affect strength gains or not?

[Michael Jordan]

What you are calling "resistance" training sounds more like endurance training. Generally speaking, the more you work on a specific area of movement the more that area will improve. Other areas may benefit, but just by way of not working on them directly they don't specifically improve, or improve as much as the focused areas do, in the very least. Specifically speaking, if you have carefully constructed a workout to improve your strength, then there should be x amlount of sets and reps (volume) that are included in the workout that you have determined will most efficiently increase your strength without overtaxing your body. Increasing the workload volume beyond what you have determined to be the optimum amount of workload volume will be detrimental to the workout that you have just performed.

If you want to do a workout based around strength that focuses just on improving strength, there would be no reason to add endurance movements afterward or at all. However, if your goal is to increase strength and endurance, why not just incorporate endurance activities into your workouts? Another option would be to structure some of your workouts mostly or entirely around strength improvement, and other workouts entirely around endurance improvement.

[Felipe]

Thanks for the answer.

Having 2 different workouts would be the optimum but endurance it's not my goal, it's only for balancing all the isometric exercises.

I wanted to know if endurance movements (not aerobic) can slow my recovery and strength gains.

[George Launchbury]

Hi Felipe,

Shoes Magoo is correct. However we may have a slight case of confusion with terminology? It might not be 'aerobic' but anything over 20 reps should be considered endurance, and it's not really going to give you gains in much else. To get stronger you need high intensity, adequate rest between sets and proper recovery between sessions.

> Loads you can handle for 1-5 reps/set - Pure strength

> Loads you can handle for 8-15 reps/set - Mainly hypertrophy

> Loads you can handle for 20+ reps/set - Mainly endurance

You should balance out the isometric training, but do it via some dynamic work using an intensity/rep/set program for strength. If there's no reason for doing endurance work (especially to such an extreme degree), it's just going to slow recovery, progress, and also increase risk of overtraining and injury. If you do need to do the endurance work, a few more details might help in advising how to best go about it.

Cheers,

George.

[Felipe]

I read Kurz's

Advantages of High Repetitions and Deep Breathing During Exercise

http://stadion.com/column_stretch26.html

and was fascinated about the story of the russian guy

My goal is to increase strength gains in gymnastics skills, but other areas with such benefits of fitness are welcome in my workout.

But I remember a post by Coach Sommer on this argument, he believes that progressive strength training in the 5-8 rep range alone produces great results also in the endurance range of simpler movements.

[George Launchbury]

Hi Felipe,

...But I remember a post by Coach Sommer on this argument, he believes that progressive strength training in the 5-8 rep range alone produces great results also in the endurance range of simpler movements.

Do you have a link to the post? I'd be interested to read it in context, since it's not one that springs to mind.

Thanks,

George.

[Edward Smith]

George, I believe it's from 'the hanging leg lift' article. Near the bottom, after the progressions.Correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I remember it.

Ed

[George Launchbury]

Hi Ed,

I might be having a vacant morning, but I just re-read the article...

> http://gymnasticbodies.com/articles3.html

...and couldn't find it??

Cheers,

George.

[Edward Smith]

Hey George (and everyone else reading this thread),

Here's what I meant

Except for occasional forays to break up the monotony of training and some specialized equipment exercises, I do not train my athletes with high repetitions during physical preparation. I am far more interested in the generation of athletic power than I am in the development of endurance. The stronger and more powerful an athlete is, the higher the degree of athleticism they will be capable of exhibiting. To that end, I find that weighted leg lifts are the far more beneficial choice for future athletic excellence then endless high rep sets of the weightless variety.

Not exactly what Felipe was talking about but the same general gist, plus it is in context with this topic. Hope this clarifies what I (and Felipe) were talking about,

Ed

[Edward Smith]

Definition of Resistance Training

This is more for people viewing this post and are a little confused with what's being talked about. Resistance training is simply strength or endurance training or even cardio which involves external resistance, the resistance can take many different forms from bodyweight to free weight, from water (swimming) to an unmovable object (i.e a wall). Now whether the form of resistance is used in a dynamic or isometric fashion does not change the fact that you are applying resistance to the muscles.

Hope this clarifies things for some people,

Ed

[Felipe]

Topic (about an high rep circuit type training)

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=10708

The important post

http://board.crossfit.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=11

Coach Sommer (I hate the quote tag... bad colors make it difficult to read):

[...] The above workout results of my athletes seem to be little short of miraculous considering that the event was never even trained for. Especially in light of the fact that we rarely go over 5 reps for only one set of weighted muscleups in the normal course of our conditioning. However, for those who have been involved in serious gymnastics training, results like these are not uncommon. [...]

And this one (not really an OT) is another I found years ago and post here because it's incredible!:

This will blow your mind but the record for free balancing CONTINUOUS HSPUs is not 13, but 163. These were done on the parallel bars and were full range with the shoulders going down to the hands on each rep. And to make it even more incredible it was done by a 50 year old man who remained in a handstand for the entire 30 minutes that it took him to complete the 163 reps. His name is Mako Sakamoto, is now 58 years old and can still do 75 full range HSPUs without really raising a sweat. Mr. Sakamote was the personal coach of 1984 Olympic Gold Medalist Peter Vidmar and the long time head coach at BYU.

[George Launchbury]

Thanks Felipe,

I had read those posts in the past, but was a little thrown off by your 5-8 reps statement (which I failed to find with a quick search on the pages). I don't have time to re-read the whole thread in detail right now, but the message I came away with previously was that gymnasts who predominantly train up to 5 reps still do extremely well in tests of endurance, even though they do not train that way.

Cheers,

George.

[JoeS]

Definition of Resistance Training

This is more for people viewing this post and are a little confused with what's being talked about. Resistance training is simply strength or endurance training or even cardio which involves external resistance, the resistance can take many different forms from bodyweight to free weight, from water (swimming) to an unmovable object (i.e a wall). Now whether the form of resistance is used in a dynamic or isometric fashion does not change the fact that you are applying resistance to the muscles.

Hope this clarifies things for some people,

Ed

Right. That's my definition of resistance training. However, I have read training related material coming from countries like France and Italy and their definition of resistance is different. For them, resistance is just anaerobic training, like 400m interval training on a track, for instance.

That's my understanding anyway.

Latin countries:

aerobic <=> endurance

anaerobic <=> resistance

[Felipe]

thanks for the misunderstood, I'm from Italy and this was exactly what I learned.

[George Launchbury]

Hi JoeS,

That's an interesting fact, which I'm sure will prove to be useful in the future as the site starts to attract more members from across Europe.

Many thanks,

George.