Back Onto Inverted Planche, Need Advice

[Seiji]

Well, I want some advice now that I'm back into it. I got the simple and brilliant idea of pushing an L sit forward... And I feel it in my elbows. With all the crazy/stupid stuff I do, I feel an L Sit in a place I've never felt before.

Also, I could probably use some suggestions how (if you were doing this) you would go about it. My best ideas are through that pushed L sit and working levers into a victorian. I think the pushed L sit is a bit much though... If you think about it, it's like trying to planche by holding a planche and pressing on the floor. As it seems, that doesn't really work too well. So, advice, critique, suggestions, and comments are more than welcome!

I noticed that my elbows are eeeeeeever so slightly bent. The picture is a little blurred, but I didn't just swing into it and then get a picture, I just moved when the camera took it. I've never tested the hold for time... I don't like how it makes my elbows feel.

Yes, that's GB in the background. Respect!

[Neal Winkler]

You are your own person, I'll give you that.

My honest advice is to spend your training time on the basics, and then some day in the future maybe you can think about achieving something that no one has done before.

[Seiji]

What basics? My injury means all I can do are pulling exercises that don't involve biceps. The only things I can do are ones that pertain to my ultimate goal and handstands.

My handstands suck, but I'm giving them time. I don't train often, but I've seen improvement definitely since when I first started.

I'm pretty crazy, heheheh :twisted:

My goal is insane, I know. I'm really understating the hardship I'm going to face to achieve this, but I'm going to keep trying. I wouldn't say I have an iron will... I can't push through extreme pain the same way others do, but what I got that they don't is determination. As I mentioned when I first started this nonsense, this is preposterous and I don't expect it happening in the next 2+ years. However, if I play my cards right, it can happen. So that's what I'm gonna do... just keep on pushing it. I'm naive enough as it is, most people I know think I'm pretty crazy already, but I doubt half of them realize that I am this mad.

Oh, and again, sorry if I come off as rude. I really don't mean it.

What basics would you recommend if you had to take everything that involves bicep out of it?

Add: I measured the picture... Telling from the angle of wrist to shoulder, my arms aren't straight anyways. From wrist to shoulder, it's a 72 degree angle. From an L sit, that means I'm leaning 18 degrees... Sort of sad when you think about how small of a degree that is From hip to shoulder, it's measured as 60 degrees, 30 from parallel. I measured from where I thought the joints were (center of sockets where the ball is), or at least gave my best try. Interesting numbers... Means I need to work harder

[Marlon]

Hey Seiji, I think you would do well to listen to traianglechoke when it comes to spending more time with the basics. Not that that means you can't set high goals, but put your focus on some less lofty ones, and set a inverted planche on the backburner. build up a good base of strength before you start training directly for what is essentially the most theoretically difficult way to support your own bodyweight. Get a solid planche, and a front lever, hell get an iron cross too. Strengthen your elbows and your shoulder girdle in that way, especially if just pushing an L-sit forward like that doesn't feel good on your elbows.

If you really are set on just digging in and going for this skill then I think pushing an L-sit forward is entirely the wrong way to go about it. I would guess that training like that is akin to trying to get a planche by laying down, pushing up into a cobra stretch, and trying to get your legs off the ground. Your first step, IMO, should again be to set an easier goal and get a manna. If i understand it correctly, a manna is essentially an inverted tuck (or pike) planche. Just like with the rest of your lever work your primary consideration should be to get your hips at the same level as your shoulders. working your manna will also build up the strength you really need flatten your back and open up your shoulders which is what you'll need it you want any chance of keeping your body off the ground in an inverted planche position.

And finally,just to give you some perspective (in case your still not entirely clear on what it is you are trying to do) Not only would an inverted planche be much harder than a Victorian cross which, as i'm sure you know, only one person (a 5 foot 2 inch 135 lbs gymnast who has been trained professionally by some of the worlds best coaches around the clock for his entire life) on the planet can do (with bent elbows and an extreme false grip). But also, just think about how much more difficult a full planche is than a tuck planche, then extrapolate on this and think about the fact that, for an inverted planche, a manna is the equivalent of a tuck planche. This isn't just some random skill that no one can do because they think it's impossible and don't train it. It is orders of magnitude more difficult that a manna which is quite a rare skill even among elite gymnasts. It may not be impossible, but if it's not, it's right on that line.

[Razz]

Manna is NOT EVEN a tuck planche because you have no lean angle since your feet past your face outbalances the other side. A high manna or a manna with legs tucked would be more equivelant.

[Neal Winkler]

As the years go by he will give up on this. When I was 16 couldn't imagine that I wasn't going to achieve big things. Looking back now, I realize how young and naive I was. Give Seiji time, reality will hit him eventually.

[John Sapinoso]

Start with something slightly easier, like finding the Snuffaluffagus and dividing by zero.

[Animalonfire]

Seiji, have you tried working on a palms up front lever?

I figure the same scale rises in difficulty as: 0 > FL + palm up BL > palm down BL + Bl > maltese + Lsit > Vsit. All in one area.

Perhaps remove a leg or two?

Best of luck anyway.

[Newguy]

In reply to all of you people who are being negative and saying it is impossible maybe you are right but if it is not for seji we will never know now will we?

all I can say to him is that to get the Victorian you will need to go the extra mile the extra degree be better that all but the elite of the elite, however to get the inverted planche you will need to ANOTHER extra degree be better than even the best of the best,

dare I say it to become A class of your own

http://www.212movie.com/'

lol ok Good luck seji

[Cole Dano]

Certainly no need for negativity here. Seji has a thick skin though, so i don't think its getting him down.

I don't know that anyone is saying impossible, but in order to get to the top, you have to start at the bottom, thats just a fact. We all have to put in the groundwork to get where we want.

Personally I'm not in any particular hurry to accomplish anything, i find the whole process to somehow be more important, more engaging than the goal. It just about getting in there and doing the work and seeing what fruit it bears. Of course at 47 its easy to say that, but the truth is, even though i've accomplished allot in my field, i find the basics to be the most interesting, and most things seem to just be an extension, a growth of the basics. Its great fun starting from the bottom with Gymnastic Strength Training™.

In general the approach that the Coach seems to be espousing is one of consistent progression. Whether one's goal may be inverted planche or anything else, one needs a road map to get there. And then its a matter of getting on with it, and not giving up, if it comes or not is irrelevant, because one will accomplish to one's potential if the map is intelligently followed.

So i'd say that it not matter of saying 'you can't' to Seji' but more of 'start from where you are', 'be honest about what you can do right now and even proud of it and keep pushing forward from there'.

[Gregor]

In reply to all of you people who are being negative and saying it is impossible maybe you are right but if it is not for seji we will never know now will we?

all I can say to him is that to get the Victorian you will need to go the extra mile the extra degree be better that all but the elite of the elite, however to get the inverted planche you will need to ANOTHER extra degree be better than even the best of the best,

dare I say it to become A class of your own

http://www.212movie.com/'

lol ok Good luck seji

Because it's like saying I WILL RUN 100M UNDER 9 SECONDS...

[Seiji]

Hah, I didn't realize how negative the forums were to the idea.

I still think it's a pretty stupid idea (let me emphasize that), but I'll keep going for it. I know that even if I do one day get it, it'll be years from now. I knew that when I start.

If you really are set on just digging in and going for this skill then I think pushing an L-sit forward is entirely the wrong way to go about it. I would guess that training like that is akin to trying to get a planche by laying down, pushing up into a cobra stretch, and trying to get your legs off the ground.

only one person (a 5 foot 2 inch 135 lbs gymnast who has been trained professionally by some of the worlds best coaches around the clock for his entire life) on the planet can do (with bent elbows and an extreme false grip).

I think the pushed L sit is a bit much though... If you think about it, it's like trying to planche by holding a planche and pressing on the floor. As it seems, that doesn't really work too well.

Sorry, but I gotta lol on that one. Beat you to it

I think more than one person can do a victorian... Danny Rodrigues weighs less than 135 though, I thought (I'm assuming that's who you mean). However, I think it's an insanely small amount probably < 5. I'm pretty sure I saw one other guy do it at least.

I haven't tried palm up front lever because I can't front lever. (working on it) I can't do exercises like planche because of my bicep tendonitis. Even if I could do palm up front levers, it would tighten my biceps more. Not good for my tendonitis.

Hey guys... I'm just gonna throw this out and be a total dick about it: (we might never know if it's a real thing, but you know how it goes)

[yuri marmerstein]

yea, but that guy could also supposedly climb a rope with 260 pounds attached to himself at a bodyweight of 130 among his other feats.

he was not a one trick pony

[Marlon]

I stand corrected, Danny Rodriguez is actually 126lbs making the skill that much more unaccessible to the average person, I don't know how much you weigh, but I would guess that you are already bigger than he is, and that after putting on anywhere near the required muscle mass to attempt this skill you would be quite a bit larger.

As for that bit that you beat me too, I'm terribly sorry, It did look to me like you were making that same point in your own post, but because you referred to pushing an L-sit forward as both "simple" and "brilliant" i assumed otherwise.

And no, there is no one else who can properly execute a victorian. There are quite a few videos on youtube of people trying, even in competition, but no one other than rodriguez really even gets close to horizontal and they tend to have very piked hips. I'm sure tons of gymnasts have tried it beyond those three people, gregor says he trains it fairly regularly, but There's still only one who can actually do it properly.

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[Mikael Kristiansen]

Well, I dont like at all to be negative about peoples goals, but I believe inverted planche to be impossible. I am on my way to becoming a professional handbalancer, and I am in a community of people who live off doing pushing the limits of whats possible, and I have never heard of anyone who was even close to doing that. I dont even think that Danny Rodrigues could do that, though he is possibly the individual on earth closest to it. There is no way to create enough push with the muscle groups available to push forward and stay with straight hips. Manna is extremely hard, and it is still with counterweight. I think there is a reason why noone has done it.

IF I should give you advice, it would be to first get all the gymnastic strength basics REALLY REALLY strong, and get the worlds strongest manna. However I think that is what you should focus on anyway. Get good handstands, some ring strength and planches, and go for learning a manna, it is a high enough skill for ANYONE to be proud off.

[Seiji]

The best part is that I'm completely structured wrong for this skill. My arms are tiny and my legs are as big as my chest. Funny story, I actually weigh about 127. The most I've ever weighed in my life was 130. (that's really sad honestly)

I'm (sorry for language) fucked. I'm going to start on iron crosses and fix my front levers, but of course I'll keep on with this inverted planche nonsense. As you can tell, I'm really stuck on this idea. You guys (in my opinion) seem to be professionals, and what do I do? Not listen. Well, I do, but I'm just too stubborn on this skill to give up just because of the million set backs.

Wilma Rudolph, that woman with polio?

Bboy Junior had polio in his left leg, and now he's supposed to be one of the best planchers in the world.

Greg Louganis: HIV positive and still living it up.

Come on guys, there are plenty of stories out there. I'm not trying to persuade you into giving me false hope, I just want you to know this: Although there are plenty of people who are outliers and super successful (tiger woods and people I mentioned above), what's stopping me from being one of them? It's not impossible.

I think that it could be SLIGHTLY possible, that if I work hard enough, I might pull off something at least sort of possible.

[Neal Winkler]

If you have bicep tendinitis don't start working on iron crosses. Heal your bicep and go through the proper elbow prep as outlined by Coach before you touch the iron crosses.

[Seiji]

I've always attempted to do Iron Crosses with elbows facing down so that the triceps are lifting, not the biceps. I asked Gregor about crosses once and he basically said do whatever you want with shoulder rotation.

Is it still a bad idea despite that?

[Seiji]

Oh, I found the reason why it hurt my elbows to lean back in an L sit. It was because my elbows face diagonally when I sit with my hands forward. I have to externally rotate my shoulders and move my hands to compensate, and now there is no elbow pain. I was basically putting a lot of pressure on my elbows in the wrong direction.

[Razz]

If you have bicep problems, don't start cross work...no matter how you rotate your shoulders it's bound to go wrong.

[Joshua Naterman]

Until you work your elbow prep correctly, I think your questions are a waste of both your time and the time of everyone else.

That's harsh. I know. You already know this though! You've basically said so yourself. Time to grow up and do things properly. There are no short cuts. Every time you find a way to bypass a current injury you are really just finding a way to allow your body to get EVEN MORE INJURED before symptoms re-appear.

Build up to a 3-5 minute reverse push up. Build up your rings elbow prep the way coach outlined. Build your basic statics up to at least straddle planche, straddle FL/BL, ADV L-sit on PB, floor straddle L, proper middle split hold with flat back, 2+minute perfect wall handstand. Eventually you should be able to do 5+ minute wall handstands. Without all of this prep AND the maintenance of it, your body WILL BREAK under the strain of what you are attempting. That's it for this subject, time for you to get to work.

[Razz]

+1...!

[alec_ar]

How many people here can do a foot supported Victorian or inverted planche?

[Baldux]

I can do victorian on rings pulley system