Prerequisites?

[nf46]

The May seminar is coming up, hopefully there will be an opportunity to discuss it with him then.

How did this go? Do we have an answer or not ?

[Joshua Naterman]

The May seminar is coming up, hopefully there will be an opportunity to discuss it with him then.

How did this go? Do we have an answer or not ?

Soon. That could mean "this year" or "in 12 months" or tomorrow, but Coach seems pretty confident that he is almost done. There's a lot more changes than just pre-requisites, so look forward to that!

[nf46]

Cool, thanks for the update.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Sounds like it will be a lot more focused on getting people started. That's great!

[Joshua Naterman]

Yes, it does seem that way. I'm pretty excited too, I'll be buying a copy as soon as I see it in the store.

[Rafael David]

I'd suggest just doing 3-4 sets. When your max hold is 30s you can do 4 sets of 15 for the full 60s. Right now I think you'll find that going for 3-4 sets works much better.

It should be done only in the days that the WOD don't have statics? When the WOD have statics I should do just the prerequisites, right?

[Joshua Naterman]

If there is specific static work in the WOD for the day, like 5 sets of German hangs or front lever for example, then yes you can skip those particular FSP or prerequisites in your warm up if you want to.

I will still recommend that you do at least one set, especially with the pre-requisites.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

(...) Soon. That could mean "this year" or "in 12 months" or tomorrow, but Coach seems pretty confident that he is almost done. There's a lot more changes than just pre-requisites, so look forward to that!

Hello,

Sorry to revive an old thread for my first post...

Is the GB book presently sold on the site the updated version?

Has "liquid steel™" been published yet? (I could not find it in the catalog)

Thank you

Fred

[Joshua Naterman]

Liquid steel will actually be integrated into the 2nd Edition of BtGB! It will not be a separate publication because you really need a fair amount of the joint prep and mobility work to really do your best with the BtGB program.

The current book for sale is the first edition.

[Blairbob]

Is the GB book presently sold on the site the updated version? (I could not find it in the catalog)

No, just version 1.

Has "liquid steel™" been published yet?

No, and it won't be. It's material will be spread out through version2 of BtGB and other volumes. So say mobility/flexibility that is pertinent to BtGB will be in BtGB v2 and so forth with the other books, I guess.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Ahhh, thank you Slizardman and Blairbob

[Matus Michalicka]

Hey guys..I am confused...I want to start right so I am doing all prerequisites. After pre requisite I hit only frog stand, german hang and handstand and than go to FBE.

Today workout looked like

Hollow Hold - 3x 30sec

Arch Hold - 3x 50sec

Plank - 3 x 50sec(feet on ground, resting on forearms)

Rev Plank - 3x 60,50,50sec - feet shoulder height

Dead Hang 3x 50,50,50

Rings Support 3x20sec(PB support is easy)

...I am not sure whether to do only 60 sec total for each or do 3 sets total trying to get 3x60sec.

I haven't estimate my max on prerequisite..but I can hold everything over 60sec(except Hollow hold). However I am definately working too close to my max.

Should I continue to do these? or estimate my max hold, devide it by half and perform as many sets as I need to complete 60 sec.

For example my max hold oh HH may be 40 se, AH - 70sec, Plank 70, Rev Plank 70, Dead Hang 60, RS 25sec

I would do it like these:

HH 20sec x 3

AH 35sec x 2

Plank 35sec x 2

Rev Plank 35 x 2

Dead hang 30 x 2

RS - probably will have to go to PB support - just do 60 sec x 1

or should I hold each 3sets for as long as I can stopping shy of failure (before I start to shake?) as I was doing until know?

When can I start doing real FSP??? do I need to be able to do 3 x 60sec...will I ever progress to it when I will never hold it for more than 60sec per session?

I was quite fatigued, but it didn't effect the rest of my session.

[Rik de Kort]

I think the requirement is 1x60s for each of them, right after eachother.

EDIT: Joshua corrected me, see post below this one.

[Joshua Naterman]

I think the requirement is 1x60s for each of them, right after eachother.

That is in maintenance phase.

Requirement to move to maintenance and start working on the next progression is 3x60s, with 30-60s of rest between reps.

[Rik de Kort]

Ah, thanks for the correction.

[Matus Michalicka]

I think the requirement is 1x60s for each of them, right after eachother.

That is in maintenance phase.

Requirement to move to maintenance and start working on the next progression is 3x60s, with 30-60s of rest between reps.

when you are working towards 3x60sec...should you hold each hold as long as possible without going to failure...or should you estimate your max? and dive it by two and hold 3sets...or how would you estimate your hold times?

[Joshua Naterman]

Whatever allows you to get the best results. There is no need to stick to a strict steady state cycle, just don't push past failure of good form. With endurance work like this, it is a good idea to come fairly close to your limits without losing form.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

I am working on the prerequisites and started with the dead hang in pronated grip (pull up grip).

Then for some reasons, I tried supinated (chin up grip) and found it was extremely stressful on my elbows (and shoulders) if I tried to straighten the arms (I hurt my right elbow doing 2x12s! )

Of course, I did not insist, healed my elbow and kept doing the pronated grip.

Should the deadhang be done with supinated grip? Or is it okay to do the supinated dead hang?

Are there exercises that will be restricted later? (german hangs?)

What if it is too hard for my actual shoulder/wrist/elbow ROM? (or tightness of tissues in the forearms?)

Are there progressions to safely help with this?

Thank you

Fred

PS: When I straighten my arms in front of me, palms facing up, I am able to get the forearms parallel (the arms and forearms form a Y) - I think that affect the mechanics of a supinated dead hang.

[Rik de Kort]

It's a chinup grip deadhang, so the grip has to be supinated, yes. This is to build elbow/biceps strength for later moves like back lever with hands supinated and iron cross.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Argh, I was afraid of that! More humble pie for Fred :roll:

Thanks for the answer Rik De Kort

Mammamia, this is going to be a long road!

What do I do now?

I can't hang supinated; just putting my hands in position, arms bent & little weight is a strain on the elbows... :?

Where to start - safely - ?

Fred

PS: if only these needles were not so dangerous, I would have taken knitting i/o gymnastics!

[Joshua Naterman]

It's a chinup grip deadhang, so the grip has to be supinated, yes. This is to build elbow/biceps strength for later moves like back lever with hands supinated and iron cross.

As a slight correction, this is really about establishing mobility and grip strength with a secondary emphasis on end-ROM strength. This is to make sure you can do full ROM work, as lack of full extension into a dead hang will keep you from gaining the strength you really need in the scapular region for later work.

There is nothing wrong with using a number of in-between angles to slowly get to a chin up grip. Don't worry too much about this if your shoulders are just too tight or something, some people get impingement this way and that is sometimes a structural problem that can't really be worked around. It's not a big deal. Start off slightly wider than shoulders (this may have challenges of its own at first, take your time and slowly work into the dead hang if you need to) and don't get any closer until everything has felt good for several weeks. Move 1cm at a time. Seems slow, but it's worth taking the time. That I can guarantee.

Are your hands shoulder width? You're not going to feel good if they aren't. If anything, you're going to feel extra stress on teres major and the lat attachment because this position puts extra stretch on those muscles. Over time, approached gradually, this will help with opening the shoulders.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Yes, Joshua, thank you.

When I did it a few weeks ago and got this elbow pain, the grip was 1.5 times shoulder width (I first tried narrower, but I was like WTF, so I widened it!)

I did it again today, with slightly wider than shoulder width, supported, and without full extension overhead; I actually extend the arms to full extension, but they are at an angle over my face; there is strain in the elbows and shoulders, no feeling in the trees major or lats, but I was very prudent.

Changing the angle progressively is a great idea (Scratching my head wondering how to do that?), and/or starting with support and less than full shoulder extension and slowly increasing weight and extension...

Not being able to do a back lever is of no real concern, but the scapula control and strength is important to me.

It will take time.

I still do the hangs pronated, for the heck of it!

Fred

[John Cook]

Hey Fred- If you have a set of gymnastics rings I've found an easy way to progressively change the angle of a supinated hang is simply to utilize the infinite range of motion the rings afford.

If you don't have a set of rings I have also had luck improving my wrist, elbow, and shoulder flexibility by holding a broomstick with both hands in a supinated shoulderwidth fashion (as if I was going to do a bicep curl), then place both arms on a table or counter top in front of you and while keeping your arms as straight and your wrists as supinated as your flexibility will allow gently lean your upper body down to involve the lats a bit more and increase the intensity of the stretch through your shoulders and arms. This would resemble a "downward facing dog" yoga stretch- differences being your hands/wrists will be supinated and your arms will be on a table or counter top. Common stretch- simple but effective. Hope this helps -John

[Joshua Naterman]

It helps to be able to use your traps to pull the shoulders back. This may not occur to people, but it increases the ROM for this particular hold.

Supinated 60s hold has little to do with BL, don't worry so much about that. 60s inverted hang is much more important, as long as you have a strong pronated hang you should probably just work on that.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Great tip on the rings angle progression and low impact "broom handle dog stretch" JCook, thank you. Yes, I'll have rings next week, and I have a broom handle (I used it to do my first shoulder dislocates in 30+ years a few weeks ago... with like 3x shoulder width grip; the handle barely cleared the head!)

When I use traps to retract the shoulder Joshua, and my hands are supinated overhead, it eases the shoulder position indeed, but it closes the angle of the hands/forearms... hummm, not too sure how that happen, I must be compensating, but there is something going on ( not sure I explain it correctly either).

I've been doing it in the air, I'll experiment on a HB with supported BW.

I'll keep working on pronated hang and inverted hang (I do the latter on a dip station so the grip is neutral, but I understand that it should ideally be pushed towards supinated - hands outwards - as the opposite position of a ring hold position)

Thank you both for your kind help

Fred