Dairy?

[Kyle Courville]

Lately, I have been eating lots of dairy. I drank 2 gallons of milk and ate 96 ounces(12 cups) of yogurt in just three days . I am just fifteen years old, amd I feel like I am still going to grow quite a bit more. I am about 5'8" my dad and mom respectively are about 6'2" and 5'10". I was thinking it might just be a growth spurt. I don't feel any intolerance to dairy foods at all, but I was wondering if there are any consequences of consuming this much.

[Joshua Naterman]

It didn't hurt me! Depending on how active you are you may end up with a little more bodyfat than you might carry without the dairy, but when you're still growing and especially if you are really, really active the dairy won't hurt you. Dairy is an interesting nutritional subject. There are a number of good threads that have a lot of good information in this forum about dairy, you should search for them and read them to learn more.

THe short version is that dairy products make you grow. A lot. Unfortunately, that does lead to body fat being a few percent higher than it might be without the dairy, but that's the trade-off. There's more to it, and if you want to know more, the info is there for you. Use the search function at the upper right part of the screen at the top of the page.

[Kyle Courville]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Unfortunately, that does lead to body fat being a few percent higher than it might be without the dairy, but that's the trade-off.

I wouldn't mind much if I did gain weight, but I doubt if I'll gain much if any. Right now I have a super high metabolism. One week over this summer I decided to count my calories for a week; I ended up eating an average of 4,000-5,000 calories a day. I never gained a pound or felt sluggish. I wonder where the calories go. :?: :?: :?:

[Jay Guindon]

Some studies for consideration regarding milk consumption. Of note, the last one I listed I personally consider to be the most important. It does not implicate milk specifically but of note is the importance of IGF-1 and the well known fact that milk promotes a large production of IGF-1 when consumed by humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15578035

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/di ... aid=917916

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15111494

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8932606

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19232475

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12610294

[Razz]

Jay thanks a lot for that, I don't want to plagiarize the latest Paleo Diet newsletter but it has some interesting points of adverse effects of dairy.

[Guest]

Razz, I was just going to say that. Some excellent information in this week's newsletter!

[Blairbob]

yep, this has been gone over more than a few times on the board perhaps in this forum. search.

[ASForum]

Dairy is highly revered in Ayurveda.

Wrestlers and warriors in the past in India got their strength from milk / ghee.. etc

I think a large part of the DAIRY issues are due to the modern western ways.. hormones, hybrid cows, genetic modified etc etc.. Add to that what kind of fodder, bad processing for increased shelf life.. there goes the milk.

I think I read / heard that tons of the old strong men used to drink milk.. i remember reading 1 gallon a day?

I'd try to go for local organic dairy stuff if possible.

[Blairbob]

yep, recently I read where someone went from standard to organic milk and that helped with a lot of bloating issues. Grass-fed is still optimal and just about the only economic way to get it is straight from the source, a share in a cow or farmer you know.

[Razz]

In EU it is not allowed to give bovine growth hormone to cows, Organic milk in Denmark also HAS to be grassfed. Maybe this is why I never had any issues with milk? Oh and besides that it's illegal to put vitamin D in milk here so there's nothing of that added either (although that might be good, but i'd rather do my own vitamin supplementation)

[Joshua Naterman]

THe good stuff smells and tastes COMPLETELY different from the cheap-o milk. I hate to say it, because I hate spending twice(or three times) the money for organic milk, but it's worth it.

[Brendan Coad]

THe good stuff smells and tastes COMPLETELY different from the cheap-o milk. I hate to say it, because I hate spending twice(or three times) the money for organic milk, but it's worth it.

Its a struggle for me and my family every day paying 2-3 times what you COULD buy the "supposed" same thing for if its not organic. I've been buying the cheap-o garbage my whole life so sometimes its hard to convince myself that I'm not just throwing money away. Luckily I've got some willpower

[Blairbob]

Organic milk is about twice as much as normal milk and grassfed raw milk is probably 2-4x that unless you have a cow share or know a farmer.

[ASForum]

I've been thinking about this Blairbob... Shared Dairy Farm i.e. something like a Co-op where people could weed out the Big Corporation and their methods from the picture.

How difficult would it be to create a pilot project that would work with a community and optimize how they do CLEAN fairy work... and then SCALE that model to work in every community around the city and so on?

yep, recently I read where someone went from standard to organic milk and that helped with a lot of bloating issues. Grass-fed is still optimal and just about the only economic way to get it is straight from the source, a share in a cow or farmer you know.

What I am thinking is... Do you drink bad chemicals milk 7 times a week or the better milk in lesser quantity & frequency? I'd go with the second - A lot of so called "Paleo"-like tribes & natives do not eat that much. Quality over quantity.

GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out.

In EU it is not allowed to give bovine growth hormone to cows, Organic milk in Denmark also HAS to be grassfed. Maybe this is why I never had any issues with milk? Oh and besides that it's illegal to put vitamin D in milk here so there's nothing of that added either (although that might be good, but i'd rather do my own vitamin supplementation)

Is this the case for entire EU or Denmark only?

Thats a great law - Maybe thats why Europeans are not going Obese like America. I hope its "applied" and "implemented" in honesty, rather than just a law in the books.

THe good stuff smells and tastes COMPLETELY different from the cheap-o milk. I hate to say it, because I hate spending twice(or three times) the money for organic milk, but it's worth it.

Its a struggle for me and my family every day paying 2-3 times what you COULD buy the "supposed" same thing for if its not organic. I've been buying the cheap-o garbage my whole life so sometimes its hard to convince myself that I'm not just throwing money away. Luckily I've got some willpower

I agree with you. You are investing in to yourself, your body, your long term health. The other guy will end up paying a lot more health, quality of life, health insurance and medical bills later in life.

Organic milk is about twice as much as normal milk and grassfed raw milk is probably 2-4x that unless you have a cow share or know a farmer.

Wow! I used to pick up Horizon Organic back in Houston but I had no idea grassfed was that much more. I think there in lies a hidden business model of shared co-ops.

[Blairbob]

I can't remember if the grassfed raw milk was $7 a half gallon or gallon in Sacramento. Apparently, WholeFoods was carrying it for awhile before they opted to stop as well. I used to get it from small natural foods stores as that was the only ones who would carry it.

[Brendan Coad]

I can't remember if the grassfed raw milk was $7 a half gallon or gallon in Sacramento. Apparently, WholeFoods was carrying it for awhile before they opted to stop as well. I used to get it from small natural foods stores as that was the only ones who would carry it.

New Leaf carries it around here, the grassfed non-pasteurized non-homogenized stuff and I'm pretty sure its around the price you mention. If I do dairy its generally just cheese or cottage cheese though. No milk for me for a while. Im interested in trying the el naturale stuff though. Im really curious about how different it tastes.

[Jay Guindon]

GrassFed dairy does contain a large amount of Conjugated Linoleic Acid which is an extremely potent anti-carginogen. It still contains the same amount of IGF-1. For those who read the studies know that IGF-1 causes acceleration of growth as well as aging and has been implicated in the proliferation of cancer cells. So it would be interesting to see if the CLA in GrassFed milk counteracts the IGF-1 and inhibits cancer cell proliferation instead. Until I see some studies on this, the dangers of increased IGF-1 in my body leads me to stray away from all dairy. If it is shown however that the CLA cancels out the IGF-1 and actually helps prevent cancer and slows cell aging I would not hesitate to reccommend it. I am somewhat confident that the CLA cancels out the effects of IGF-1 on cancer cells, I am not confident that CLA can inhibit the accelerated aging effects of IGF-1. Hopefully we will get some forward thinking researches to do some research on GrassFed dairy and it's metabolic effects.

[Razz]

Maybe dairy is the reason us scandinavians are some of the tallest people in the world

[ASForum]

Maybe dairy is the reason us scandinavians are some of the tallest people in the world

Milk is said to be a "Guru" for growth in Ayurveda & Indian culture. I read an article that talked about some latin countries had imported tons of species of Indian cows back in late 18/early-mid1900s because how great they were. Now, its said lesser natural species are still "healthy" & living in India than those countries.

All the genetic-mod / cross breed / hybrid cows are the cause of issues. For 100s of years no one had milk issues. Last 30 years or so.. its amplified? Why? ....... Chemicals & modern western crappy pharma-chem lobbied medical science.

[Nicholas Sortino]

Generic store bought milk is terrible. UHT pasteurization, homogenization, mixed milk from tons of cows, feed-lot cows, etc. I don't think that kind of milk has any health benefits at all. More than likely it is detrimental.

On the other hand, if you can find it, I believe raw milk from true grass-fed pasture cows is one of the best things you can drink (the only thing better being water). Unfortunately it is hard to find, expensive and has a terrible stigma so most states ban the sale of it. The only way to get it in those states are expensive cow-shares which are contractual obligations.

I take the middle road since I can't afford a cow share. I have found a company that has grass-fed organic dairy. The milk is not homogenized, and they use the VAT method of pasteurization, which is the lowest legal temperature (145*f). That is the same as a medium rare steak. So i have to hope it leaves a lot of the nutrients intact that the Ultra-Pasteurization (270-300+*f) destroys. I also use a lot of raw grass-fed butter and raw grass-fed cheeses.

[ASForum]

Generic store bought milk is terrible. UHT pasteurization, homogenization, mixed milk from tons of cows, feed-lot cows, etc. I don't think that kind of milk has any health benefits at all. More than likely it is detrimental.

On the other hand, if you can find it, I believe raw milk from true grass-fed pasture cows is one of the best things you can drink (the only thing better being water). Unfortunately it is hard to find, expensive and has a terrible stigma so most states ban the sale of it. The only way to get it in those states are expensive cow-shares which are contractual obligations.

I take the middle road since I can't afford a cow share. I have found a company that has grass-fed organic dairy. The milk is not homogenized, and they use the VAT method of pasteurization, which is the lowest legal temperature (145*f). That is the same as a medium rare steak. So i have to hope it leaves a lot of the nutrients intact that the Ultra-Pasteurization (270-300+*f) destroys. I also use a lot of raw grass-fed butter and raw grass-fed cheeses.

Do share the name of this company and how you found them.. I am sure people would like to know such options.

[Nicholas Sortino]

http://www.farmersallnaturalcreamery.com/ - Grass-fed and VAT Pasteurized

http://www.natural-by-nature.com/ - Grass-fed but HTST Pasteurized

[Yeti]

Generic store bought milk is terrible. UHT pasteurization, homogenization, mixed milk from tons of cows, feed-lot cows, etc. I don't think that kind of milk has any health benefits at all. More than likely it is detrimental.

On the other hand, if you can find it, I believe raw milk from true grass-fed pasture cows is one of the best things you can drink (the only thing better being water). Unfortunately it is hard to find, expensive and has a terrible stigma so most states ban the sale of it. The only way to get it in those states are expensive cow-shares which are contractual obligations.

I take the middle road since I can't afford a cow share. I have found a company that has grass-fed organic dairy. The milk is not homogenized, and they use the VAT method of pasteurization, which is the lowest legal temperature (145*f). That is the same as a medium rare steak. So i have to hope it leaves a lot of the nutrients intact that the Ultra-Pasteurization (270-300+*f) destroys. I also use a lot of raw grass-fed butter and raw grass-fed cheeses.

sooo true! Thanks for the links! I myself get organic dairy milk when I buy milk or dairy products in general. The crap they put in cows anf the stuff they feed them is awful! Corn is not meant for a cow so it gets sick and when it gets sick (which happens to virtually all cows that are fed anything other than grass) they pump them full of anti-biotics and other crud. Thanks for the educated post!

[Nicholas Sortino]

sooo true! Thanks for the links! I myself get organic dairy milk when I buy milk or dairy products in general. The crap they put in cows anf the stuff they feed them is awful! Corn is not meant for a cow so it gets sick and when it gets sick (which happens to virtually all cows that are fed anything other than grass) they pump them full of anti-biotics and other crud. Thanks for the educated post!

The only nation-wide large Organic (but not truly grass-fed) brand I will buy from is Organic Valley. They are probably the most trust worthy of the large brands, and they at least claim their cows get a good amount of pasture time. I wouldn't buy from "fake" organic brands like Horizon

[Joshua Naterman]

Interestingly, in most states you can buy raw milk for your pet. It is simply illegal to label it for HUMAN consumption. So you could always by your dogs a regular supply of raw milk, get confused, and pour yourself a glass.