Gymnastic training and martial arts

[lokate]

I have been in martial arts for more then 30 years now. And since the beginning off Internet I am looking ofo good solid strengthtraining programms to supplement my martial arts training.

Off course I have done a lott off routines but most off the times they were so demanding that I dont had any energy left for my martial arts training.

Then I read articles from Mr. Sommer and they realy interested me.

Off course I cant wait for the book he is/was writing, I think it will be great.

My question till then is, are they any other martial artist outthere who see it the same way as I do (I mean the combination off gymnastic and martial arts training)?

And maybay are there some people who can share their routines or have good routines witch I can use for building up some strength and off course some muscles to supplement my MA?

[kbryk]

Of course gymnastics can be supplemented in for a martial arts workout, both gymnastics and any of the martial arts require a huge demand for upper body strength and balance and of course thats what gymnasts are best, one thing I'm not sure gymnastics will cover is the explosion part of martial arts depending on what fighting style you are using.

Every person I've met that even wanted to pursue any fighting type was great at body weight, dips for triceps and chest, pull ups for lats, push ups for chest and triceps, lots of core work for the simple fact there will be body shots, tuck planches for chest, shoulders and upper arms. You can get the toughest workouts and the most productive workouts from from bodyweight stuff.

[lokate]

Seems like you know a lott off training.

Can you help me putting together a sort off routine off all the things you mentioned, like dips, pull-ups, push-ups etc.

I was relay impressed by the article from Mr. Sommer about the planches e.d. It seems a very good exercise for building up strength to.

Hope you can help me to put together a good solid routine witch include sets, reps, how often a week etc.

As I said before, I have tried lotts off training with weights but to me it seems not to work.

Take care

Wim

[kbryk]

I'm not the best person to help build a routine, but usually for me I do 10x5 for pullups, as for pushups I do a nifty set I came up with, firstly you do 5 diamond pushups and after that set is complete you go into 5 wide pushups followed by 5 normal pushups and lastly 5 shoulder pushups; these are one of my favorite things to do, it's tough but you will see improvements. Dips I started off at 3x10, you will notice an increase fast if you cannot already complete these many once you have 3x10 stay somewhere in the range of no more than 5 sets of dips. As for the tuck planche just follow Coach Sommers article. As for the core, ohh wow, I do alteast 200 reps. of various core work, most of this is with ankle weights because I've been doing these for awhile, I start off with 12 v-sits, then I do something I learned from school they are pretty much crunches with a twist(literally) I do 24 of these, then do 12 n-sits, then 10 superman raises, along with holding the hollow position for 12 seconds between each set.

Sorry I write in run on sentences, I think it is just easier to get my point over that way.

[Wade]

Gymnastics training ia awesome for martial arts.

I have been doing MMA mix martial arts for 2 years and have started rings and body wieghts training for about six months which has become my main weights. I can not be more happy as my strength in both stand up and subbmission fighting has improved greatly.

So yes, gymnastics traing is good for MA.

Wade

[lokate]

Thank you wade for the explaining. You do this 3 times a week orso?

And Wade, I am very curious about your workout to.

Can you write how it looks like?

[Wade]

At the moment my work outs are all over the place.

I am trying to include rings( pushups, flyers, jack knifes, dips) as well as HSpus and pullups. Also i am trying Steve Maxwells Spartan 300 workout, that one is intense. Plus my bag work, sparring and grappling training.

However i have so much inforamation from different areas of training that i have got to a point that i don't know which is right or wrong.

Basically, i am freestyling at the moment until Coach's book comes out.

Wade

[lokate]

Thanks for the information. I will do the same. Cant wait for the book do

[Raizen]

Out of curiosity what martial art do you practice? Depending on the style the answer could be yes or no. (Wushu, yes. Sumo, no) Also, asking that question at all on this forum is practically redundant, as this place is clearly a center for bodyweight/Gymnastic Strength Training™ enthusiasts. It is a great method for relative strength to bodyweight, but there are plenty of other possibilities. It sounds like your problem lies more in your inability to create a reasonable conditioning routine than in choosing a style of strength training. Just like any other type of routine, if you overtrain on a Gymnastic Strength Training™ routine than your additional martial arts training will suffer. Gymnastics strength training isnt anything special or magical, its just a different approach to the attainment of the same goal.

[lokate]

The style I been practicing is Jeet Kune Do. A very demanding style.

Yes, you are right, I find it hard to choose a good routine. Not because I dont know what to do but when I do a few sets with a few reps and I like it then I read that it would be bad for martial artist because they say that martial artist can better do more reps etc.

So in that case you are right. But still. When I was younger (15 orso) i have done almost 2 years of gymnastics (next to my MA training).

Then I stopped becaused I had to focus more on winning games etc.

Now I am a little older (47) and I still like gymanstics.

And true Internet I read off all the benefits off gymnastic training so to me it seems not a strange move to incoperate it to my MA training (again).

The probelm is that I dont know witch exercises are good to building up strength (and muscles) so i was hoping that someone could help me wit putting together a good solid routine for that.

[Coach Sommer]

Workout of the Day

Don't worry, you are not alone in having difficulty deciding which workouts and training may be appropriate. There are so many different methods available and so many variables that constantly shift, change and merge that it can be quite confusing to decide both where to start and how to maintain progress. That is where it can be most helpful having the guidance of an expert with years of the appropriate experience. For those who are interested in pursuing gymnastics based conditioning, I will shortly be posting WODs (Workout of the Day) on the main page.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Raizen]

I always thought Jeet Kune Do was more of a philosophy than an actual style, or at least I believe that was Bruce Lee's wish for it. Assuming we're refering to it as a style, Jeet Kune Do is definately one of my favorites, as it is extremely versitile and allows for a lot of personal modification by the practitioner to achieve his or her personal best style of fighting. I think gymnastic style strength training would definately compliment that style nicely, so long as you made sure to balance you upper body strength with your lower body. Jeet Kune Do emphasizes the fact that combat is a constantly changing thing, and so you must strengthen every part of yourself, and train every skill from kicks to punches to grappling to groundwork. Working the planche and front lever progressions is definately a good idea, as the planche can be directly related to punches, and front lever strength will greatly aid in grappling. If you can do pistols I highly suggest those, and once you build up enough strength, their variations.

[lokate]

Hello mr. Sommer,

great idea to put WOD on you page. Cant wait to see them.

Do you have a idea when you will do that?

And what about your book. is it still coming out soon?

Raizen. JKD is not only philosophy, yes it has alott off it, explaining why they do thing on a specific way etc.

But its a hard way off training. It is mostly for streetfighting. You are training what work for the street. Thereby you have to be in top shape.

Bruce himself always says that when you are not in shape you have no use in training martial arts (sorry for my bad Englisch).

[George Launchbury]

Hi Raizen,

I always thought Jeet Kune Do was more of a philosophy than an actual style, or at least I believe that was Bruce Lee's wish for it.

The 'Bruce Lee Foundation' used the name Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do to refer to the martial arts system that Bruce Lee taught. Jun Fan was his Chinese given name.

This is usually what people learn/practice if they have little prior experience in MA, or just want to learn what Bruce felt fitted together well (not all styles do) before adding their own unique twist. It has, however evolved since his day.

There was a lot of people during the 'boom' a number of years ago sticking all manner of things together (that they had experience in) and selling it to the public as Jeet Kune Do Concepts which was a minefield for the student, as there were genuinely good people out there, and those trying to cash in because they knew some styles that worked well at different ranges, but not necessarily together.

EDIT: I edited the end of the above paragraph as it sounded like I was knocking specific styles. I don't want this to degrade into some debate about MA, or something equally inappropriate on this forum. In fact, I almost wish I'd never said anything!

I got out of MA years ago as I was fed up with the injuries and the politics (mainly the politics).

Sorry that it's off topic, thought you might find it interesting.

George.

[George Launchbury]

Hi lokate,

From a more training-based perspective - If you are doing JFJKD, be sure to practice your 'ready' stance (bai jong) on both sides equally. It's quite a 'twisted up' stance, and you'll be spending a lot of time in it.

When I was learning/teaching I neglected to do this, and as a result I have some odd imbalances in my leg muscularity, flexibility and proprieception that have caused all manner of problems with knee and ankle pain. Mainly (but not limited to) calf/ankle problems in rear leg, and knee/hip issues with front leg. It's taken a lot of time/money to iron out.

I guess the same could go for anything where you adopt a 'bladed' stance for long periods on a regular basis, and goes for shoulders and spine as well.

Gymnastic strength should be very useful for JKD, especially as it doesn't involve getting too big which would slow you down. I would also ensure you do some work enabling you to transfer that strength into striking power, since hitting hard and fast is the name of the game.

Also, static strength is very useful for grappling, which is mainly static holds instead of large concentric movements - holding a choke, armlock, etc. where your arms (for example) mainly hold onto something tight (e.g. a neck or an arm) while it's trying to get away from you.

My experience in Gymnastic Strength Training™ is minimal, and so far I've mainly seen examples of straight-arm holds. Working some bent arm supports (like holding in the mid-part of a chin-up, or the bottom part of an HSPU) would also be useful? I don't know if they ordinarily form part of a gymnast's strength program?

I can imagine it would be much harder to get a decent straight armlock on someone with the arm/shoulder strength required for a full Planche!!

George.

[lokate]

Yes I know that it is important to train both sides, even if JKD says that you have to have the strongest side forward.

And ys, I think gymnastic training will be very usefull to supplement MA.

So I hope that mr. Sommer make some hurry with his WOD's.

[Raizen]

Thank you both for the insight on the art. I was under the influence that Bruce Lee had disbanded his Jeet Kune Do schools because he wished for the phrase to represent a more abstract concept as opposed to an actual style of combat.

Haha the injuries are never pleasant, but more or less inevitable as the only concievable point of combat is to injure the opponent, whether be in the name of self defense or not. I just ignore the "politics" lol.

[lokate]

There are still good teachers such as Ted Wong and Jesse Glover. they are good teachers and dont want to make mony off it.

Right now I like the stuff Tommy Carruthers does. Seems like a very good JKD-er to with a lott off knowledge.