Perfect Pre, Mid, and Post Workout Nutrition

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Slizz, you say "meat when I feel like it" which gives me the impression that meat is the backbone of your diet. Mind giving a rough estimation of what your average weekly protein intake is?

[Joshua Naterman]

Nowhere near what it used to be, I have no idea. Maybe 800g per week? That works out to what, 115-ish g per day on average? Sounds a bit on the high end for me, but I'm honestly not 100% sure. I used to have over 1400g.

Vegetables are now the backbone of my diet. I still eat meat, but not like I used to. I just don't have the money! Doesn't seem to be affecting much of anything though.

I eat meat every other day now and not as much as before.

[Rafael David]

Hey Slizz, you know tell me how monks don't have the common problems from a non-meat diet? Can you tell me too what your daily meal plan without meat? :|

[Joshua Naterman]

Who says they don't? You'd have to have blood tests to say that.

For one thing, most monks have a pretty wide variety of food in their diets. Many have gardens with all kinds of herbs and veggies, so they are getting a wide variety of micronutrients.

I eat a lot of different greens, and go through different colors of veggies throughout the week when I can afford them. I do stil eat meat, just not every day. Many times every other day though.

[Rafael David]

I thought they had no such problems... Protein on this type of diet, besides the mung beans you know another who can replace them as well? Here it says much that the black beans and rice (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1qNa14NeXmo/S ... _menor.jpg) make a complete meal, accompanied by a salad course, what do you think?

[Warrior'sSuite]

Your primary job after each workout is to make sure that you are not letting your body destroy CURRENT muscle mass for repairs. As long as you prevent protein breakdown (proteolysis) you will have vastly superior training results. That's what this thread is all about.

I only read the first long post of this thread because i hadn't had the time to read it all, so forgive me for asking but, how does this happen? Your body destroying current muscle mass for repairs?

[Joshua Naterman]

You have to get protein from somewhere for repairs to happen, and if it isn't from food it's going to be from the damaged tissues and then if that's not enough it will come from undamaged tissue as well.

Food doesn't help you if it isn't in your blood yet. Hence liquid protein being a better option since it's easier make sure you've got what you need around the workout with the liquid due to faster absorption.

[Joshua Naterman]

I thought they had no such problems... Protein on this type of diet, besides the mung beans you know another who can replace them as well? Here it says much that the black beans and rice (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1qNa14NeXmo/S ... _menor.jpg) make a complete meal, accompanied by a salad course, what do you think?

No single plant protein is complete in the way that the human body needs, and there are certain vitamins that are very hard to find in a vegetarian diet. Together black beans and rice appear to fulfill the majority of the body's needs. Looks like those South Americans are pretty smart.

Again, I would suggest that you soak and sprout your black beans. Rice is a giant pain to sprout, in my experience, don't waste your effort unless you've got a very easy and painless way to do it.

[marcusuni]

Slizz I too seem to be slowing dropping fat and building muscle. I have glucose and protein during my workout, and then 2 more glucose and protein shakes 20 mins apart then a third without glucose after another 20 mins, then some white rice with wings or tuna about 30 mins later. I was wondering what you thought of the use of dates with that 3rd protein shake?

O yeh I'm having less protein and slowly getting bigger, probably have around 180-200grams a day, but I weigh 220. The key seems to be to get it in and around your workout.

[Warrior'sSuite]

You have to get protein from somewhere for repairs to happen, and if it isn't from food it's going to be from the damaged tissues and then if that's not enough it will come from undamaged tissue as well.

Food doesn't help you if it isn't in your blood yet. Hence liquid protein being a better option since it's easier make sure you've got what you need around the workout with the liquid due to faster absorption.

Well, i don't like to exercise with a full stomach, i feel like i'm going to throw up and it just doesn't feel right, that's why i take at least an hour and a half to 2 hours after i have lunch or dinner to workout. Will that be fine? Or will the protein be gone by then?

[Quick Start Test Smith]

No single plant protein is complete in the way that the human body needs, and there are certain vitamins that are very hard to find in a vegetarian diet. Together black beans and rice appear to fulfill the majority of the body's needs. Looks like those South Americans are pretty smart.

Again, I would suggest that you soak and sprout your black beans. Rice is a giant pain to sprout, in my experience, don't waste your effort unless you've got a very easy and painless way to do it.

Almost all (if not all) of the paleo experts I know of are strongly against rice and beans. I love 'em both, though, so I'd be happy to hear some reasons why you don't consider them problematic.

Also, have you experienced any abdominal pains or anything of that type from eating the black beans? I've read about people getting severe pain from eating sprouted black beans. I've never had a stomach ache problem from beans, but the indigestion is fairly common I think.

[Rafael David]

Almost all (if not all) of the paleo experts I know of are strongly against rice and beans.

Obviously... :roll:

I love 'em both, though, so I'd be happy to hear some reasons why you don't consider them problematic.

I love too...

Also, have you experienced any abdominal pains or anything of that type from eating the black beans? I've read about people getting severe pain from eating sprouted black beans. I've never had a stomach ache problem from beans, but the indigestion is fairly common I think.

Personally I never feel anything, can be genetic, i don't know... :|

[Joshua Naterman]

I think the biggest factor there is going to be that people simply don't get hardly any fiber in their diets OR any natural digestive enzymes, so they can't handle a high fiber food like beans. There also could be a higher than normal enzyme load which may make people who aren't used to this feel funny but I don't know what else. I just read everything on the first two pages of google searching and it seems "a lot of people" have trouble with black bean sprouts when raw, but they are fine when cooked. If cooking sprouts you are supposed to cook them on low heat for 45 minutes, that seems to be the general consensus.

When I eat a lot, and I mean a LOT, of sprouted mung beans I get some gas, but not bad. I think this has a lot to do with my slow and steady increase in dietary greens and veggies in general over the past few months. I am loving my life like I haven't loved it in a long time. There's more to it than diet, I mean I am just thrilled to be going in the professional directions that actually make me happy! However, I've been feeling better since before that even, so the dietary changes have a lot to do with it. Green leafy stuff FTW!!!

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Almost all (if not all) of the paleo experts I know of are strongly against rice and beans.

Obviously... :roll:

Yes, it's not surprising that a "paleo" expert would disapprove of beans, but it's possible that one or two of them consider them fine under certain situations. I figured Slizz would have to have a good reason for eating beans. I trust Sliz over a generic paleo expert! The proof is in the pudding.

[Joshua Naterman]

Sprouting changes the chemistry of seeds and removes the entire scientific reason paleo is against them. You could still argue that people 300,000 years ago didn't soak seeds and then eat them, but who really knows and who cares? The main point behind Paleo nutrition is to avoid the toxins and allergens that we have unwittingly introduced into our diets, not to dress up like Fred and Wilma! Although... I could go for a rack of Brontosaurus ribs.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Slizzardman, do you have a particular protein powder that you like more than others? I'm probably going to get some within the next month or two.

[Joshua Naterman]

I have been pretty happy with the vitamin shoppe store brand, actually, for whey protein. For slower proteins I get the Matrix 5.0, it's my favorite of the slower proteins that are more appropriate for a meal replacement type thing.

[Nicholas Sortino]

No single plant protein is complete in the way that the human body needs, and there are certain vitamins that are very hard to find in a vegetarian diet. Together black beans and rice appear to fulfill the majority of the body's needs. Looks like those South Americans are pretty smart.

Again, I would suggest that you soak and sprout your black beans. Rice is a giant pain to sprout, in my experience, don't waste your effort unless you've got a very easy and painless way to do it.

Almost all (if not all) of the paleo experts I know of are strongly against rice and beans. I love 'em both, though, so I'd be happy to hear some reasons why you don't consider them problematic.

Also, have you experienced any abdominal pains or anything of that type from eating the black beans? I've read about people getting severe pain from eating sprouted black beans. I've never had a stomach ache problem from beans, but the indigestion is fairly common I think.

I've seen multiple "Paleo experts" say white rice is fine as long as you have no metabolic problems. White rice pretty much doesn't have any of the "toxins" that make other grains less healthy or unhealthy. No gluten and mostly devoid of phytic acid and lectins. Brown rice on the other hand still has some of those phytates, but since white rice tastes better anyway, i have no issue with that. Beans on the other hand, not so much.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Thanks, Slizzardman. I'm just finishing off a big 10lb bag of Mega Pack whey which I got for a little over $100 (http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Mega-Pac ... /8217?at=0). Have you ever tried anything from iHerb?

I've seen multiple "Paleo experts" say white rice is fine as long as you have no metabolic problems. White rice pretty much doesn't have any of the "toxins" that make other grains less healthy or unhealthy. No gluten and mostly devoid of phytic acid and lectins. Brown rice on the other hand still has some of those phytates, but since white rice tastes better anyway, i have no issue with that. Beans on the other hand, not so much.

Huh! That's pretty interesting. I've always heard that brown rice was healthier. I think I'll get some and try it. Brown rice always makes me break out, which I guess is a sign that it's not all that good for me. Maybe I can handle white rice...

[Nicholas Sortino]

Brown rice is touted as healthier because it has a lower GI and has a few extra vitamins and minerals. But they aren't really worth it for the extra phytates, imo. The only thing I use rice for is occasional sushi or PWO food, so I am not really concerned with the higher GI since it is either rarely and in small amounts, or all going to refuel after a hard work out. And if I am going to eat a grain, it damn well better taste good, lol.

[Joshua Naterman]

When brown rice and white rice are prepared the same way there is a difference of 10 in their GI. Brown is mid 50's and white is mid 60's. Not a huge difference and certainly not anything to freak out about. Obviously the longer (and hotter) any carbohydrate is heated the higher it's GI will become due to heat breaking down the starch molecules.

In my opinion this much more a matter of personal taste than anything else. Of course you'll do well to soak your brown rice for 12-24 hours before you cook it so that you deactivate those chemicals and enzyme inhibitors mentioned. Don't bother trying to sprout it, that is a royal pain.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Brown rice is touted as healthier because it has a lower GI and has a few extra vitamins and minerals. But they aren't really worth it for the extra phytates, imo. The only thing I use rice for is occasional sushi or PWO food, so I am not really concerned with the higher GI since it is either rarely and in small amounts, or all going to refuel after a hard work out. And if I am going to eat a grain, it damn well better taste good, lol.

Agreed!

[kwesty92]

Slizzardman, thanks so much for all the info!

Had a couple questions going back to the original post. You mentioned that BCAA's are quite possibly more important than creatine to add into workout nutrition. Is this still the case if I am already drinking whey protein (which contains BCAA's), or would creatine be more important than additional BCAA's?

Also, would milk be effective mixed with whey immediately PWO or would it be better to wait for 1 or 2 hrs later?

[Joshua Naterman]

Creatine would probably be more important than additional BCAAs if you're getting protein before, during and after the workout.

Milk is fine, but use 1%. I'd say use skim, but that goes against everything I like. 1% is fine, it won't slow down absorption enough to make a difference. That's why skim isn't necessary, but it WILL get in you the fastest! Just... don't use the store brand. Buy good milk.