German hang as a prereq for BL

[Gerald Mangona]

It looks like you're in pain when your arms are turning outward. Here's the thing about tendon overuse pain. For me, doing the exercises themselves are not painful. That's the problem. You think, oh this doesn't hurt. I should be ok. But it's not., and the overuse soreness kicks in very gradually. Next thing you know it's there all day.

First things first, you need to figure out which exercises are stressing those tendons and don't do them for a week...maybe two. Problem is that I'm not smart enough to help you make that determination and someone else will have to step in.

You see turned out arms on BL and German Hang, for sure, if you're working with straight arms. But someone else will have to chime in with their opinion. Once you narrow down what movements stress it, STOP doing them for two weeks, and then when you bring them back start at 20% volume/intensity and work very slowly...5-10%/week increases until you're back to normal.

Can anyone help figure out what pushed his tendons over the edge?

JM

[Leandro]

Today I did some pullup series. It seems I have pain when doing wide grip pullups, but theres no pain doing chin ups or rows. Weird.

I won't dare to do germah hangs or BL, even assisted, for some time.

[Tarun Suri]

Nothing weird about it in my opinion. If your shoulders aren't in a healthy position, then wide grip pullups will definitely cause impingement. I think bulgarian rows will also do that, but I'm less sure about this one.

[Leandro]

Nothing weird about it in my opinion. If your shoulders aren't in a healthy position, then wide grip pullups will definitely cause impingement. I think bulgarian rows will also do that, but I'm less sure about this one.

Yea, but the pain I'm referring is on the elbows, not shoulders. It's on the same spot I show in the video.

[Tarun Suri]

This is how I see it:

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I don't know if its related, but I still think that if your shoulders are unhealthy, putting strain on your nerves could cause the pain downstream. It makes sense to me, but I can equally be wrong about this, and it could simply be musculoskeletal (I assume the nervous system is not part of musculoskeletal ).

[Leandro]

Thanks man, but the pain I'm having in the elbow like the video I posted, (very present when I alternate pronation and supination in the right forearm) and also when doing wide grip pullups has nothing to do with shoulder, It can't be. I never ever had this kind of pain in the elbow, and it started the day after I overdid german hang, BL, and more stuff like I said previously. I was even doing weighted wide grip pullups some months ago (5kg), and absolutely nothing wrong in the elbows...

As for shoulder, I definetly have some issue in my right shoulder too. But I still dont know what is it. Usually, after heavy pressing trainings I have some pain at night, and the day after, while doing certain moves. But this has already medical attention. I'm really worried about the elbows, because its been more than 10 days and the pain is still here. Its less pain, but its still pain.

[Coach Sommer]

... I never ever had this kind of pain in the elbow, and it started the day after I overdid german hang, BL, and more stuff like I said previously ... I'm really worried about the elbows, because its been more than 10 days and the pain is still here. Its less pain, but its still pain ...

You have answered your own question as to how this injury has occurred and how it can be avoided in the future.

10 days is a drop in the bucket when treating a significant tendon strain, as the metabolic rate of connective tissue is 1/10 that of muscle tissue. Given your level of discomfort, you will probably require a minimum of several weeks (and quite possibly 4-6 weeks) to achieve significant healing.

In the interim, fish oil and vitamin C supplements will help to reduce the inflammation. Also be sure to only train elements which do not aggravate the injury.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Leandro]

In the interim, fish oil and vitamin C supplements will help to reduce the inflammation. Also be sure to only train elements which do not aggravate the injury. Coach Sommer

Thanks Coach Sommer! It's always great to have an answer straight from the coach!

I have already admited my fault, and also I'm seeing this from a positive perspective. I will incorporate an injury free mentality from now on.

Although I'm having a hard time figuring what are the "elements that aggravate the injury". Because as I said, I'm almost certain that GH and BL were responsible, but what gives me pain right now are other kind of movements, like a wide grip pull up (chin ups looks fine). Support holds are weird as well. If not under big stress, pronation and supination gives me pain as well. It's strange that chin ups are fine but chin grip holds are not.

Should I simply avoid pain? This means that in my current condition is ok to work chin ups, HSPU, dips, and light biceps curls and triceps extensions. But I'm afraid because these are strong exercises, I just wanna be sure if pain free exercises are ok even if we're talking about the heavy ones.

[Coach Sommer]

If there is no pain during heavy pressing elements, you are fine.

It was overtraining GH & BL that caused the initial injury, experiencing pain now when performing pull-ups is simply symptomatic of that first injury. All pulling elements and XR support holds will strongly utilize the injured biceps tendon and should be avoided for the time being.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Leandro]

Alright! I feel a lot safer with them now, and I will skip all pulling stuff for some time, thanks!

[Gerald Mangona]

Hey Leandro...one other thing to add on. Whenever it is that you do start back up after all the pain is gone, I'd suggest skipping BL and German Hang work for another month. Go back to holding a chin grip, arms turned out, fully straight arms for 60s for 4 weeks. Maybe even drop it to 30s for two weeks and see if there's any soreness before moving up to 60s and then onto the assisted german hang.

Straight arm tendon pain can be weird. It doesn't hurt while you're doing it. Then 2 weeks later, you're like WTF? That's why the 60s straight arm chin is a good place to start. Stay there for a month before going on. My straight arm work sucks. MY elbows hyperextend and if my tendons aren't strong enough to keep the weight off of my tricep/elbow connection, I pay the price.

I tried the straight arm chin hang for 30s and even that was too long. So I'm just working on plank leans little by little until I can do them with straight arms with my hands near my waist. Then I'll go back to trying the chin hang with straight arms. Been doing it for 2 months and haven't had any pain at the tricep insertion. I wasted 4 months last year in recovery time because I didn't know about the early progressions to the German Hang or Straight arm support. It's nice that I've found a pace that is slowly increasing my bicep tendon strength gradually without putting my elbow at risk.

And remember, once you're healthy again, you can still do BL and German Hang with bent arms until your tendons catch up.

Slizzardman writes about being patient with the progressions -- especially for tendon strength -- in this article:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3311#p23536

Good luck - J

[Leandro]

I have read that post from slizzardman some time ago, but it's always good to read again to remind the importance of going slow. My thick skull is starting to learn that.

Ironically, when you first wrote about the chin grip, I tried it and there was no problem, it was the day after I overdid. I have strenght to hold that for longer than 60s. But right now, altough I can actually hold the chin grip, I definetly feel something weird in the elbows.

Thats gonna be my first straight arm work, along with support holds, when the pain goes completely off.