Hands Forwards and Backwards (Planche!)

[kittyfat101]

So, I've read a couple posts on this already, and I don't mean to ask a question that already has been answered... but I just want to be super clear.

I've been training my planche (tuck hehe) with my fingers forward... it hurt at first, but I'm used to it and have no problems now. But in overall strength gain, you're saying it would be more beneficial for me to start training fingers backwards? On a pair of dumbbells (i have no parrallettes), I can hold a tuck planche for about 21 seconds (maybe more now), and on the floor i can hold the tuck planche fingers forward for about 12 seconds. If I were to change my hand placement to fingers backwards, what would be the step I should take? Just continue with my tuck planche, and expect a drop in time? Or do I need to work the frogstand with fingers backwards? I never did the advanced frogstand... it's not in the original "Building an Olympic Body" article, and I was able to do the tuck planche without it. Plus all the kids in the pictures for that article are doing them with hands forward xD

But yeah, so for maximal strength gain, it would be BEST to work fingers backwards, and it would transfer to rings better? Am I correct? I don't own any rings yet... but will probably purchase some at some point... I'm young saving up for a car haha So ya, just wondering if it's better results, I don't want to cheat myself, and what my step should be in transferring from the fingers forward to fingers backwards, according to my current hold times. Thanks guys!

God Bless,

Zach (kittyfat...)haha

[Blairbob]

If you change to hands backwards or to rings, you should start from scratch regardless. Test each position and then move on accordingly.

[kittyfat101]

Gotchya. But will changing be beneficial in the end? Like, is hands backwards more effective than hands forwards?

[Michael Traynor]

It has been discussed at length by those that know what they are talking about that planche on the floor does not cross over to planche on rings, there is no benefit to replicating the hand position you will use on rings on the floor, straight arm strength is straight arm strength so long as your planching is done with correct position then hand position is your own preference.

[Philip Chubb]

Really? I was believing that the bicep would be made more prepared by the planche with hands facing backward. It won't get your a planche on the rings, but I do think it would be more beneficial for preparing you to try it on the rings.

[Blairbob]

Will it prepare you for rings? Somewhat like a planche lean.

[Aaron Griffin]

So, if you had to pick ONE hand position and train it, what would it be? I'm trying to work on my wrist flexibility for fingers forward, but progress has been pitiful. I'm starting to wonder if I should scrap that and shoot for hands backward or on bars...

[Philip Chubb]

I would work the hands backward one for the strenght. And then I would work on the wrist flexibility. Speaking of which, I like to do Coach's first knuckle pushups with the ridge of the palm on a bench. It lets me strengthen the wrist in that stretched position. Works a lot faster than normal passive methods.

[Aaron Griffin]

  PHILIP said:

Speaking of which, I like to do Coach's first knuckle pushups with the ridge of the palm on a bench. It lets me strengthen the wrist in that stretched position. Works a lot faster than normal passive methods.

If I understand you right, are you saying that you put the fingers on the bench so that the first knuckle can flex fully up and down? That sounds awesome.

[Philip Chubb]

Yes but not the fingers. More like right below the fingers. If you do it right, you will feel a stretch in your wrist when you allow your weight to go on your hands. Then you do the push up and lower down slowly back into the stretch. I hope they work well for you.

[Alexander Moreen]

I would think it depends on your long term goals. If a straight body press to handstand on the floor is something you want then train it fingers forward.

[Philip Chubb]

It is funny that you said that because I actually train that with hands backward as well.

[kittyfat101]

So, in other words, should I train... all of them? haha. Sheesh, I'm finding there is so much that goes into this... I don't want to overcomplicate things and stop myself from making ANY progress...

[Tarun Suri]

Don't. Do what feels right. Don't modify unless you have to.

I always did fingers forward. When I moved on to adv. flat tuck, I moved it out to about 30 degrees to feel more comfortable. Just do what you're used to doing.

[Aaron Griffin]

  RandomHavoc said:

Don't. Do what feels right. Don't modify unless you have to.

I always did fingers forward. When I moved on to adv. flat tuck, I moved it out to about 30 degrees to feel more comfortable. Just do what you're used to doing.

But what about those of us who are stuck. I have no problem doing 3x60s Advanced Frog Stands with bent arms, but can't seem to gain the wrist flexibility to straighten my arms and still balance - nothing has changed in months, no matter how hard I try to press forward to stretch out my wrist. Hands out feels amazingly awkward to balance for me, so I'm starting from scratch on that position.

[Philip Chubb]

Then you should do it with your hands backward or to the side. Find the happy medium. I like to do it turned at an angle. My index fingers point straight ahead. Using passive means to gain flexibility for the wrist will still make a hands forward planche difficult. The wrist has to be strengthened in that deep range for it to be able to support weight in a deep range.

[Aaron Griffin]

  PHILIP said:

Then you should do it with your hands backward or to the side. Find the happy medium. I like to do it turned at an angle. My index fingers point straight ahead. Using passive means to gain flexibility for the wrist will still make a hands forward planche difficult. The wrist has to be strengthened in that deep range for it to be able to support weight in a deep range.

Yep, I'm going to fiddle with hands to the side and back right now. Restarting with the Frog Stand

Any suggestions as to how to strengthen the wrist in the range for a hands-forward planche? All the wrist exercises seem to focus on the other direction (i.e. wrist pushups, first knuckle pushups, etc)

[Philip Chubb]

Use a bench to get into the stretched position for whatever movement you want to use. Use dumbells to get a deeper range. There are lots of ideas.

[Tarun Suri]

Another option is not to jump immediately into straight arm frogstand. I know a few on the forums (Slizz included?) who straightened out slowly over time. Play with where you put your knees. Is it lateral to your arms, or behind them, resting on your triceps?

[Aaron Griffin]

  RandomHavoc said:

Another option is not to jump immediately into straight arm frogstand. I know a few on the forums (Slizz included?) who straightened out slowly over time. Play with where you put your knees. Is it lateral to your arms, or behind them, resting on your triceps?

I currently place my knees directly on my elbows. If I go any higher, my wrist flexibility and center of gravity don't seem to jive well. I can easily manage 3x30s (and likely 3x60, just haven't tested it in a bit) in this position, but cannot seem to increase it at all.

How long should this take? I haven't seen any progress in about a month and a half.

[Ryan Verma]

I do it with my hands facing backward. I am currently at the flat tuck planche progression.

However, when i did frog stand, i did it with my hands facing forward because the angle that formed between my forearms and the floor did not cause discomfort in my wrists. With any progressions after that, I had to face my hands backward because I have pretty lousy flexibility and tendon strength in my wrists compared to people that have trained the skill for years and/or weigh less.

Like someone else already said, don't bother struggling with a hands facing forward planche unless your end goal is a straight arm press to handstand from a planche. For me, even though it would be nice, I know that it's out of reach for me due to a combination of my flexibility, age, mass distribution and time available to train. I find it's easier to do a planche on parallel bars or pushup bars, but since my goal is to be able to do it on the ground, I train my planche from the ground. Assess your goals and train accordingly

[Joshua Naterman]

Very well said.