Shaolin Monks > Gymnasts

[chingyvang]

Not trolling, but just when I thought gymnasts were the strongest pound for pound humans, the Shaolin monks crossed my mind and they seem to take the title. Though monks do dedicate their entire lives to training, compared to the 10-15 years of training gymnastics. All on a vegetarian diet. Some amazing things I've see them do, just some....

-Rope around arms while getting pulled apart by two mules walking in the opposite direction

-headstand instead of handstand (i know, headstand is in yoga also)

-Iron cross holding ropes, not rings

-balance on a spear to the stomach

-getting hanged mid-air by the neck while meditating cross legged (harder than front lever?)

-they also have amazing hops and can flip like ninjas

-planche...and v-sits with legs over the shoulder

-taking a kick to the groin

-balance on nothing but two spears to each nipple

-finger handstands

just listing some things that I remember off the bat. So can we all agree that Shaolin Monks indeed have more strength pound 4 pound than gymnasts? Not trolling as you can see i'm a regular here

[RatioFitness]

:roll:

[Erik Sjolin]

I can't say for certain, but I don't think nipple stabbing and nut shots are a big part of a gymnasts repertoire.

Seems like something the Russians might have done, though.

[quad6]

-taking a kick to the groin

[Joshua Naterman]

I can't say for certain, but I don't think nipple stabbing and nut shots are a big part of a gymnasts repertoire.

Seems like something the Russians might have done, though.

In Soviet Russia, nuts kick YOU! :shock:

[Newguy]

Lol, lets tear your list apart piece by piece:

1.Lol, if it was elephants, cheetahs, or horses I might be impressed. But donkeys? Walking? Now with two objects pulling you apart, all you really have to do is stand your ground, get a good foot hold and bend your arms...Also look at the weight of an average donkey, 200 Lb's, so 200 pounds pulling in both directions...that's not very much...The G forces involved in even something like giants on the high bar, are probably much greater, to say nothing of something like kovacs on the high bar.

2. :roll: Headstands are almost always learned before, or while you are learning handstands in gymnastics. They are also quite easy. And yes I can do them to.

3. In competitive gymnastics an IC is a relatively low level skill, it is nowhere near as impressive as something like a ring PL or Maltese. (I do believe that the IC is a B rated skill, the ring PL is rated C, and the Maltese is a D someone correct me if I am wrong) So all you really have to have is the grip strength and you can do it on ropes no problem. (Actually I would not be surprised if most competitive gymnasts could do this with no training)

4.Technique, I have also seen people walking on hot coals, broken glass. I have seen people laying on beds of nails and a car driven over them. My point is their is a specific science to any stunt like this.

5. And I have had my brothers pick me up by nothing but my neck (okay so maybe I deserved it ) And hold it for a couple seconds. It's not that hard, with specific training it would probably not take much longer than to learn to be perfectly comfortable here than a BL.

6. Meh "hops?" "flips?" Are you talking about something like a Round off, Back handspring, Double twisting back layout (Like Paul and Morgan Hamm I do believe have) Or something like a standing back layout, or maybe something like our own forum member does

watch?v=MIOsCPxpo_Y&

7. Planche? That makes them pound for pound stronger than gymnasts?! Dude, I can do a straddle PL... And I am by no means strong! Do they do it with their hands backwards? On Rings? Or do they just hold it on the floor for 30+ seconds (which is the world record, set by a rings specialist) And if your amazed by their V-Sits, obviously you have never seen a video of Mr. Allan bower do a high manna!

8. Lol like the other one this is just technique, and I should add this stunt has nothing or little to do with strength. Yeah it may be a neat stunt. But it should not be used to insinuate that they are stronger pound for pound than gymnasts?!

9. Yay! :| I have toyed around with these too. Granted I used all ten fingers, but you are probably talking about the supposed "1 finger handstand" Well first off gymnasts don't train specifically for stuff like this. However they do have insane finger strength, just look at a video of Jonathan Horton on high bar! And I think you will realize that gymnast have better finger strength than any other person on the planet. (With the possible exception of handbalancers)

Do you care to renounce you claim? :twisted: Or do you want to name some other stuff that these "super human" monks can do?

Sincerely yours, the "newguy" :wink:

(SORRY!!! I just had to do this, but it is true, gymnast are by FAR the strongest pound for pound individuals on planet earth! And sorry if I seemed a little cruel in my beatdown. But I am kindav protective of the title of "pound for pound strongest in the world" that gymnasts have earned.)

EDIT!!!

Sorry I forgot the "kick to the groin"

THIS DOES NOT TAKE STRENGTH!!! THIS TAKES STUPIDITY! This only proves that they are pound for pound the stupidest individuals on planet earth And that they have rather good pain tolerance.

[Joshua Naterman]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Well, it is absolutely true (and the monks specifically talk about this in some of the documentaries) that there is a lot of very specific technique to the sword bending and other such stunts. They practice for a long time to do it right, and you'll notice that they take their time setting it up in performances.

I think we would find that the monks probably have superior open hand strength and neck strength, and that's about it in terms of superiority. In terms of static position endurance, I think the monks would devastate the gymnasts overall, but not in terms of planche holds or things like that. More like horse stances or other poses that the monks use on a daily basis. I also think they would have superior flexibility, quite honestly. As flexible as gymnasts are, what those monks do is pretty outrageous and it seems to be every single one. It is not every single gymnast who can match them. I have a shaolin stretching series and it is CRAZY.

As for the holding two animals trick, is this with hands clasped or with arms to the side like a cross? Hands clasped is an old trick, but arms out is different. Donkey are pretty strong mofos, they can pull a person along like it's nothing. You have to have pretty strong everything to do these types of stunts. The old strongmen used to hold high powered motorcycles while their tires were spinning, and cars and teams of horses, so this kind of thing absolutely happens all over the place. It's still really tough.

For headstands, are we talking about no hands? I have just started working these and they are really hard on the neck. I like how it feels.

As for the tumbling, the monks tumble pretty darn well. Chinese acrobatics are pretty sweet + awesome. There are a LOT of one foot landings, which you can EASILY equate to the forces handled in double back flips with twists and all that. On top of that it's on dirt, not a plyo floor. Not that the gymnasts can't do the same, I mean tricksters do it all the time and I've seen Dillon bust out some pretty cool stuff. They talk about Allan like he's some sort of tumbling God hahaha, but I haven't seen him really bust stuff out too much. He is apparently in a class of his own there at the gym though lol!

I mean, watch Ido's videos of him tumbling in the grass. That stuff is just as hard on the body as double flip two leg landings! Maybe harder.

EDIT!!!

Sorry I forgot the "kick to the groin"

THIS DOES NOT TAKE STRENGTH!!! THIS TAKES STUPIDITY! This only proves that they are pound for pound the stupidest individuals on planet earth And that they have rather good pain tolerance.

AHAHAHAHA!!! This made my morning!!! That... is awesome. That's all I can say...

I used Shaolin methods of body toughening when I was fighting competitively and I have to say that they are probably the toughest guys on the planet, at the very least right up there with Spetznas. I will admit that my ability to handle groin shots has a lot more to do with innate toughness, being belted a lot as a kid, and perhaps a certain amount of animalistic fighting spirit, but my ability to be punched in the throat full force by a 450 lb bencher and not getting hurt (This was in Senior Year of high school, I can not do this anymore) absolutely came from shaolin method practice. I did that from my head to my toe and it just seemed like I could not be damaged. So I give them toughness bar none.

[Sternford]

my ability to be punched in the throat full force by a 450 lb bencher and not getting hurt (This was in Senior Year of high school, I can not do this anymore) absolutely came from shaolin method practice.

How on earth did you work up to that, and how did you find someone willing to punch you full force in the neck?

[Joshua Naterman]

LOL, good questions. I did two things: One, I made a sock full of sand (around 8 lbs) and hit myself from top of neck to bottom of feet every day. Took about 45 minutes. I focused on neck, chest, liver and kidneys the most. I also could do 4 way neck bends with 120+ lbs for 3 sets of 20 reps back to back with essentially no rest. My neck muscles were HUGE, they stuck past my adam's apple when I flexed my neck. So, it was basically impossible to crush my throat with a fist. To this day my neck is big, 18" and solid with no training in over 10 years. Of course it would be much bigger and hard as a rock if I trained it again, but I don't have the machine or the willingness to ghetto rig one right now lol!

[Sternford]

Of course it would be much bigger and hard as a rock if I trained it again, but I don't have the machine or the willingness to ghetto rig one right now lol!

By "machine" you of course mean, "sock filled with sand"?

[Michael Traynor]

He means the machine that allowed him to do weighted neck bends.

[yuri marmerstein]

Haha I'm sure if any of us lived in the mountains of china with no internet, we would find interesting ways to entertain ourselves as well.

[chingyvang]

A mule is a Donkey? What I meant was the Shaolin guy was being pulled apart by two Ox, not two donkeys.

I expected a little heat obviously because I posted on a Gymnasts forum, but I'm not choosing sides here. I'm just here to say that Gymnasts do indeed seem like the strongest P4P humans on earth, but lets not forget about the shaolin monks who also train similarly, and may even have more strength when comparing certain skills shared with the gymnastic world.

And having the ability to withstand a kick to the groin is not stupid at all, It's actually a God send

[Newguy]

No, I am not denying that monks may be better at a few things then gymnasts. However, overall their is really no comparison.

[ChenZhen]

I don't comment that often but this topic is kinda close to my heart as I trained near Shaolin for some time.

While they're certainly very athletic, all those tricks like spear bending, breaking iron bars,... are just stupid tricks that can be learnt quite easily. Most of the foreigners who wanted to learn that stuff were able to learn it within a couple of days. The wushu performance team of that school did those things just for the audience and none of them were monks or used their "Qi". Just depends on the placement of the spear and the direction of the pressure, moreover they are not sharp.

[Newguy]

I don't comment that often but this topic is kinda close to my heart as I trained near Shaolin for some time.

While they're certainly very athletic, all those tricks like spear bending, breaking iron bars,... are just stupid tricks that can be learnt quite easily. Most of the foreigners who wanted to learn that stuff were able to learn it within a couple of days. The wushu performance team of that school did those things just for the audience and none of them were monks or used their "Qi". Just depends on the placement of the spear and the direction of the pressure, moreover they are not sharp.

Thank you

[Aaron Griffin]

I have a shaolin stretching series and it is CRAZY.

Have a link to any of this stuff? It's hard to find, but I always enjoy crazy gimmicky martial arts training things. Many paths to the same place, and all that.

[Joshua Naterman]

This is the result of a quick Google Search. I am not sure if this is what I have, as I have not seen THIS one but it seems to have very good reviews.

http://freemma.info/ufc/shaolin-kung-fu-fundamental-training-dvd-ymaa-dr-yang-jwing-ming/

[Blairbob]

Many of the kung fu styles have a certain technique for withstanding groin kicks. It also disseminated it's way into some of the okinawan traditions. Generally it was considered a high level technique that took years upon years of training. A sifu I know talked about this training in chi kung and mentioned after 20 years he did not reach that level, only the iron chi level for torso.

[Seiji]

I've never heard of a monk doing planches.

Haha, I did all sorts of iron body training for a while. I could punch myself in the neck as hard as possible and not get hurt, but I was too afraid I would die if someone else hit me (10th grade). I trained iron leg for a while and was not half bad. No master, but I would mess with people in class by "accidentally" tripping on their desk unnaturally hard. I trained in the morning at my apartment complex's pool, they had wood pillars which were perfect for kicking before school. That was nice. Iron egg was in there for a while... hehe, but I never got the ability to retract my testicles so I never had the skill.

Getting kicked in the groin isn't so bad once you pull your testicles inside your pelvis. All the kicker is doing is kicking the hips then. You still need to condition the balls and the area that gets kicked, but pulling it in is the most important part. You can't just be resistant to nut shots.

[Joshua Naterman]

True that. Sumo wrestlers do the same thing, they pull the important bits back inside their body.

[AlexX]

I've never heard of a monk doing planches.

Haha, I did all sorts of iron body training for a while. I could punch myself in the neck as hard as possible and not get hurt, but I was too afraid I would die if someone else hit me (10th grade). I trained iron leg for a while and was not half bad. No master, but I would mess with people in class by "accidentally" tripping on their desk unnaturally hard. I trained in the morning at my apartment complex's pool, they had wood pillars which were perfect for kicking before school. That was nice. Iron egg was in there for a while... hehe, but I never got the ability to retract my testicles so I never had the skill.

Getting kicked in the groin isn't so bad once you pull your testicles inside your pelvis. All the kicker is doing is kicking the hips then. You still need to condition the balls and the area that gets kicked, but pulling it in is the most important part. You can't just be resistant to nut shots.

Wait....how do you retract your testicles inside your pelvis? that doesn't sound very pleasant.

[Joshua Naterman]

I saw this on Manswers, so thank you to those buffoons! Gotta love them. There's a muscle that connects to the scrotum, and if you regularly stretch the canal that the testicles descend from you can loosen it enough to where with practice you can just ZOOP! lift them into the safety of the pelvis.

[jollyrancher]

The monks you have in XiaoLin (Shaolin) in China now are not from the same knowledge pool that stretches back thousands of years. In the Communist era.. the 'bad years' around the time of Mao, the government got rid of non-governmental organisations which could bind people together or had a spirtual side e.g. martial arts, religion. The 'high level' martial artists fled down south to Hong Kong or Taiwan.

Look at "Wushu". The Communists got rid of traditional kung fu then replaced it with something completely engineered, flashy and with no spiritual element.

The monks at Shaolin are professional careerists. I kid you not. In China "monk" is a career path like any others. You have different levels of monk, career progression, and yes, salaries and benefits. It's all about the bottom line: the temples actually are run like businesses and make a profit from visitors coming and paying for blessings and donations.

What this means is that since the era of Mao they basically recreated the Shaolin monastery and cobbled the whole thing back together from what they thought it should look like and what would be most impressive. Hence you don't get a load of deeply spiritual guys, you get a load of career gymnasts doing parlor tricks for people. Yes, some of them are ex-gymnasts who couldn't make it in the enormous, sausage-stamping machine that is the Chinese Olympic-athelete battery-farm.

Those guys will be strong, but discounting the tricks they almost certainly wont be as strong as a professional gymnast. And put one in the Octagon and he is not going to last long.

[Haya]

I've never heard of a monk doing planches.

Haha, I did all sorts of iron body training for a while. I could punch myself in the neck as hard as possible and not get hurt, but I was too afraid I would die if someone else hit me (10th grade). I trained iron leg for a while and was not half bad. No master, but I would mess with people in class by "accidentally" tripping on their desk unnaturally hard. I trained in the morning at my apartment complex's pool, they had wood pillars which were perfect for kicking before school. That was nice. Iron egg was in there for a while... hehe, but I never got the ability to retract my testicles so I never had the skill.

Getting kicked in the groin isn't so bad once you pull your testicles inside your pelvis. All the kicker is doing is kicking the hips then. You still need to condition the balls and the area that gets kicked, but pulling it in is the most important part. You can't just be resistant to nut shots.

Wait....how do you retract your testicles inside your pelvis? that doesn't sound very pleasant.

Yes, what slizzardman said is correct , the testis develop in the abdominal cave and then descend through the canalis inguinalis before birth. If this doesn't happen, then the person has "hidden/missing" testicles - kryptorchism. Now, the muscle that runs in this canal to the scrotum is called Musculus cremaster, the cremaster-reflex (which is a defensive reflex) raises the testis on mechanic/cold impact and for some animals pulls it all the way back into the abdominal cave.

Sorry if sounding too science-y, in my country we use Latin nomenclature. Just putting it out there for interest.