Can L-Sit be substituted?

[CalisthenicGod]

Hello,

I am currently following a rather complex routine I made for myself, and the Gymnastic days I have myself doing:

Back Lever

Front Lever

Planche

I am wondering if adding L-Sit is necessary, as I am working on Leg Raise progressions from a book called "Convict Conditioning", and am thinking if Hanging Leg Raises can replace L-Sits, or are they both completely different animals?

I am aware once you achieve 2 sets of 30 second L-Sit holds, you can essentially drop it out of your routine, or at least use it as warm-up?

Basically, are L-Sits necessary if you are doing Hanging Leg Raises?

[Michael Traynor]

L sit and HLL are very much different exercises. You can miss out any static you like but you will most likely just slow your progress. Yes both exercises target your core but L sit is fantastic for strengthening the arms and shoulders in a way that is vital for many other exercises.

[Julekman]

Gymnast need both. If your are not gymnast, anyway do both, if you cant, just work on HLL. You can also include static L in your HLL. My best improvements I made with dynamic exercises in combination with static in the same movement. Example, my progress on front lever was so slow with static holds. But 360 tuck pulls with static holds do wonders for me, Last time I check, straddle front lever was not problem. Also I do L sit periodically, not on regular basis, but I love reverse plank and then pull back to pike position but no contact backside with ground only heels and hands, then to L sit in one movement and reverse, with static holds on two or three spots at the end. This exercise is a miracle, just imagine triceps, shoulders, low back (spinal cord), hamstrings, abs, hips, and flexibility, almost all in one.

[EastWind]

My best improvements I made with dynamic exercises in combination with static in the same movement.

Are you saying to do HLR starting from a hanging L and finishing in the same position (hanging L)? It's the only combination I could eventually do at this time, but I'm not very sure, I have to try it.

[Julekman]

You can stop the movement in every spot you like. You can lift legs and stop in L position for time and reverse. Personally I like to lift to L, hold for 10 sec and then lift to V and hold for 10 seconds and slowly down, or lift to L and hold 10 sec then go to advanced front lever and hold 10 sec and back to L position 10 sec and down.

[EastWind]

It's too hard for me right now, but I'd love to do it. It's one of my short to medium term goals.

[Julekman]

If slowly lifts with bent knees is no problem for you to do for example 15 reps , then include holds with bent knees, go to full L and slowly down negative and easy build strength from that point.

[EastWind]

I think this should work. I can do a lot of knee raises and I can also control the tempo, so I will try to go into an L hang from the tuck position, then back into tuck as the first progression. That's a great idea, thank you!

[Julekman]

Glad to help you, good luck !

[Blairbob]

No.

One of the problems I have noticed with just doing lots of v-ups, hanging or supporting leg lifts has to do with TimeUnderTension per each repetition.

Say we tell the kids to do 10 or 15, whatever. One of the problems is that with each repetition, there isn't necessarily TUT from start to beginning.

In a HLL, unless you over hollow your hips and start in a rounded position, there is basically no TUT until you reach the end range of how high you can raise your hip flexors.

In a static hold, there is tension from start to finish.

Many times in gym, we have the kids do a zillion leg lifts and some can do them all day long because they have flexible hamstrings (not all do). With no tension, they can do 20 HLL and still not be any closer to a kip on the bar.

I'll take a kid who can do a 30s L any day over a kid who can do 10 leg lifts and cannot do one for 30s. More often than not, said kid can do 10 HLL and may be stronger and more powerful in the leg lift action.

[Reece Nugent]

From Coach in BTGB on the L-sit:

Way back when, when I was a beginning gymnast, my first coach had us do

no specific abdominal exercises; only lots and lots of regular L-sits. A 60

second L was the expected standard.

One day, one of the senior gymnasts challenged me to a hanging leg lift

contest on the stall bars (These bars are directly anchored to the wall and do

not allow you to lean back at all or to pull down with your lats - all pure core

strength). I cranked out ten repetitions without ever having done the exercise

before.

I have also expericenced the exact same thing happen to me just from working L-sits.

If your going to sub anything id replace HLL with L-sits.

[Joshua Naterman]

Agreed. L sit and hollow hold are two truly foundational exercises that NEED to be there.

I love what Lekman suggests too, I never thought of pulling all the way back to an L sit. I just messed with my lean in the reverse plank to do upper back presses, sort of. It makes you super strong if you stick with it.

[CalisthenicGod]

Thanks for the feedback guys,

I re-organized my routine and I got rid of Leg Raises and Bridging for now (From Convict Conditioning). Just wondering if Bridging is really necessary?

My static hold days is like this:

Bent leg L-sit 4x15 sec (is it okay to progress faster on this one in terms of SSC?)

German hang 6x10 sec (the first time I did it, my shoulder blades felt like they were getting ripped out of their sockets and my bicep tendons were sore for days)

Tuck Front Lever 3x20 sec (should I pull back my scapula, A.K.A. pull my shoulder blades back?)

Frog Stand 3x20 sec

I do this about twice a week.

How does my static hold routine look? 4 Fundamental exercises, I left out Manna and Straddle-L because it would complicate my routine too much, I would prefer focusing on few rather than many.

So I basically dropped Leg Raise series and Bridging series, would that impact my future strength gains? Would the fundamental static positions be enough to cover that? I am also doing push-up, pull-up, squat and handstand push-up progressions from Convict Conditioning.

One more question, what is the ideal rest time between sets for the fundamental static positions? I usually do 1 minute but I don't know if it is too long or too short.

Again, thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate it.

[Joshua Naterman]

Bridging is a very good idea, but that is mobility work. Not strength. Take it slow and progressively. You don't want to cause problems by rushing ahead too quickly!

Leg lifts aren't that big of a deal right now. I haven't been doing anything but hollow holds, body levers, FL pulls and front pulls along with some unstable front and side plank variations for my core and for the first time I can do easy straight leg full HLL without lifting my hips very much at all. My shoulder isn't quite ready for that just yet, but the strength is there to spare. I am also doing inverted sit ups now, which will enhance what I already have.

Your best SSC results will come from being patient, but as long as you are confident in your wrists and to some degree your elbows and shoulders you can afford to do one harder L sit day per week. I wouldn't try to rush the timeline too much, but since it is much more muscular in nature you could try a 6 week SSC and see how that works out.