Is it ok if I train gymnastic skills mixed with barbell

[cani]

hello, I'm not good at english

but I want you to understand my terrible english, anyway

I visited "http://eshlow.blogspot.com" and I follow that training routine

It is M/W/F training and consist of

1. 3x5 power cleans (DLs and cleans are too similar so we separate them)

2. 3x5 front lever progression pullup

3. 3x5 weighted dips

4. 3x5 weighted pullups

5. 3x5 deadlifts***

I have question about this

Which of them is better between A and B?

A : 5 power clean (3min rest) 5 power clean (3min rest) 5 power clean (3min rest)

front lever progression pullup (3min rest) front lever progression pullup (3min rest) front lever progression pullup (3min rest)

weighted dips (3min rest) weighted dips (3min rest) weighted dips (3min rest)

weighted pullups (3min rest) weighted pullups (3min rest) weighted pullups (3min rest)

5 deadlift (3min rest) 5 deadlift (3min rest) 5 deadlift (3min rest)

B : 5 power clean (30sec rest) 5 front lever progression pullup (30sec rest) weight dips (30sec rest) weight pullup (30sec rest) 5 deadlift (7min rest)

5 power clean (30sec rest) 5 front lever progression pullup (30sec rest) weight dips (30sec rest) weight pullup (30sec rest) 5 deadlift (7min rest)

5 power clean (30sec rest) 5 front lever progression pullup (30sec rest) weight dips (30sec rest) weight pullup (30sec rest) 5 deadlift

which is better for improving my strength?

Thank you for reading this

-cani-

[Blairbob]

Some people on this board think so. It's a grey debated area. I like it, some others might not.

5reps on the powerclean? Hmm. Many people say no more than 3 for the olympic lifts. May or may not/should not be possible. SS is 5sets of 3reps. With 3reps you might get away with shorter rest periods.

Honestly I would alternate PC or DL at the end of the workout MWF. So only one of each per day, not both. Mainly because 3x5DL 3d/week may be a bit much, especially after all that. This will depend on where you are on the DL. Under 300lbs, maybe.

Since you have access to a barbell, you might as well work overhead press. Some might say you can double it up with the weighted dips every day or alternate or hit one hard and one light.

Program A is better for pure strength. B might be interesting to alternate every other workout with (and expect to use different lower poundage) but not every MWF for working towards pure strength.

[WitnessTheFitness]

Whether or not training gymnastic skills mixed with powerlifting, oly lifts, and other weighted exercises is beneficial or okay is really going to depend on your goals. If your goal is overall fitness, then definitely blend the two! Both Gymnastic Strength Training™ and weight training are incredible for the body, and make up for each other's weak spots. With gymnastics you'll develop phenomenal core, straight-arm and joint strength, and with deadlifts, cleans, and such you'll develop killer leg strength, and an iron grip. Of course people tend to excel in whatever they specialize in, so if your primary goal is just gymnastics skills, then spending half of your time with barbell work will of course slow that down a bit, especially if you're gaining a lot of lower body mass. But if overall strength and fitness is your priority, then gymnastics and weight training is an unbeatable combo

I'm not sure if I fully understand your workout schedule. Do you plan on doing all of those exercises every M/W/F, or are the exercises you listed split up between the three days? It's important to always keep in mind that we grow stronger during the resting period, and that proper rest is just as important as the training itself. Working a heavy compound exercise (like deadlifts) just once a week is more than enough for getting stronger at it, whereas doing it multiple times in the same week can just lead to injury and hamper your gains. All of those exercises three times a week is way too much if you're just getting into strength training, and will be brutal on your body.

As far as exercises go, my advice would be to add some planche work in there, some sort of overhead press (if you enjoy power cleans then how about doing clean and jerks?) and squats.

Good luck!

[Joshua Naterman]

A small point before I go ahead and agree with what has been said: A proper jerk is not a press at all, it is a drop beneath the weight as opposed to a lifting of the weight itself. Jerking is very, very technical. Jeff from CFST can explain that a lot better than I can.

I'd say HSPU for vertical pressing, and I agree with planche-related work for horizontal presses.

Scheme A is most definitely going to produce superior results for strength. There are points at which you may require the occasional 5 minute rest, don't feel bad with taking a few of those if you need them.

[WitnessTheFitness]

A small point before I go ahead and agree with what has been said: A proper jerk is not a press at all, it is a drop beneath the weight as opposed to a lifting of the weight itself. Jerking is very, very technical. Jeff from CFST can explain that a lot better than I can.

I'd say HSPU for vertical pressing, and I agree with planche-related work for horizontal presses.

Scheme A is most definitely going to produce superior results for strength. There are points at which you may require the occasional 5 minute rest, don't feel bad with taking a few of those if you need them.

Good point; jerks are very different from shoulder presses. While on the topic of the HSPU, how do you feel it compares to the traditional barbell overhead press for someone new to strength training? My line of thinking used to be that HSPU should be saved until someone has the pressing strength to do the full movement, since to me it seemed better to slowly gain strength throughout the full ROM with overhead presses, rather than slowly developing the HSPU's ROM little by little and doing negatives if someone doesn't have the strength to do the full press at first. But there seem to be plenty of people that develop great vertical pressing strength just by slowly working the HSPU, so I can never quite decide whether or not to suggest HSPU or barbell presses when beginners ask.

To the original poster: opinions on strict rest times vary, but over time you're going to develop a natural feel for how much rest your body needs after each set on any given exercise. I think it's much better to use that feeling rather than specific clock times. As Sliz mentioned, sometimes you're going to require longer rest times, it just depends. Don't get too caught up in numbers, and give your body how much ever time it needs to bust out all the reps on your next set. 3 minutes should be fine for most of those exercises, but deadlifts are far more intensive than dips, so if you feel you need to rest 5-6 minutes between sets then don't hesitate. Much better to rest 5 minutes and nail every rep in your sets versus resting 3 minutes and not being able to knock out the last reps due to fatigue.

[Joshua Naterman]

You know, I personally think that we need to be working them both together.

The one 'weakness' with the incremental ROM increases used to build the HSPU strength is that we don't get full ROM work. I think that military press, either with dumbbells or with behind the neck barbell press (ONLY if you can use proper motion) is a very good idea and should be approached with the same slow progression as the HSPU.

I think the combination of full ROM work along with the relatively heavier partial ROM HSPU will be a great combination.

[Blairbob]

I concur with Sliz on the point of overhead pressing work coupled with HSPU progression. Now if you're actually working full ROM on parallettes or harder progressions you could probably omit the OH pressing work.

Our girls for instance we're working overhead pressing work besides dipping. They weren't really at the point to work HSPU progression really and too many wanted to flare the elbows out or use less an ideal ROM even when only doing HESPU on a box.

3-5m rest periods usually work. I usually try to keep track of my HR between. Now you can become more efficient with your time doing some lighter work in between but I like to just rest, generally on my back or front. Rest like the dead. This will also depend on what rep range and % I'm working. 5 reps can be pretty taxing, while 2 or 3 reps ain't.

Some HS work such as straight arm wall HS and presses could probably be incorporated somehow. PL leans and pseudo planche pushups could probably be inserted in as assistance work to the weighted dips. If you can can work adv tuck PL and tuck planche pushups you could switch the weighted dips to being assistance work.

Jerks could probably be thrown in with the power clean. However, most beginning to intermediate quality jerks are more like push presses because of the lack of technique. A jerk is more about hip pop and technique. One of the gals I went to a olympic seminar could jerk twice her strict press if I remember, maybe more and she was a national lifter. My jerk has never been much more than 1.5x my strict press (I split because squat is just weird). Truly, jerks work just about everything which is why they can be damn taxing.