qux Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Your scapula are dysfunctional. You need to re-learn how to use them and correct your posture and form. That much I can tell you 100% for certain. Beyond that, once you have taken at least 3-6 months to truly relearn scapular motion you will want to build your pull ups in all the grips and eventually start doing pull ups with ropes, and then climbing ropes. I have kind of the same issue. I have hyperkyphosis, but the last years it got a lot better. Instead, i have now muscle induration on the upper back, between my left should blade. Try to fix this by massaging and several exercises by Ido Portal.Exspecially when i do the scapular exercise from Ido Portal I can feel the muscle induration after the exercise.y4Wo095zPnc Other exercises are your shoulder stretch and Ido's Shoulder routine.1YHIV4a81Os gnAsnVNh0C0 Do you know any other exercises for the scapula or any idea how to loose the muscle induration caused from hyperkyphosis?I already get treatment, but mostly this are massages and i want to do more to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You have to restore thoracic mobility. Arched back stretchers or rolled towels and long blocks of time can help, but it will be uncomfortable for a while. Isometric cervical extensions with the back of your head while lying supine are also good. Be prepared for some serious craps that last several days if you do too much too soon. It happens, I am getting over my second episode of them. Nowhere near as bad as the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qux Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You have to restore thoracic mobility. Arched back stretchers or rolled towels and long blocks of time can help, but it will be uncomfortable for a while. Isometric cervical extensions with the back of your head while lying supine are also good. Be prepared for some serious craps that last several days if you do too much too soon. It happens, I am getting over my second episode of them. Nowhere near as bad as the first.Thank you for your answer. I have found some exercises on youtube i will try. 8u-PtZP9FG4 weLcono-BT0 Just out of curiosity, what do you think about german-hang and back-lever(tuck)? When i do these exercises, it feels like they could help, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Not the biggest fan of the work in video 1, but they are good exercises if you are able to mobilize. The biggest thing missing is a heavy sack or a light person sitting on your stomach. 80-100 lbs seems to work well for me. I would think that dumbbells would work as well but have not yet tried that particular option. This is to keep the lower back down and prevent lumbar extension nearly altogether. That's really important. If you watch the videos you will see lots of lumbar extension all over the place.In my recent experience I have found the arched back stretchers to be the single best tool for this. That second video is good for the mobility work, but mobility work isn't all that productive if you haven't opened up the t-spine and I have to say that as much as it sucks, the arched back stretchers with a weight on the stomach to force nearly all extension into the thoracic spine is really indispensable. You can do something similar with a loosely rolled towel or exercise mat, but the arched stretchers are really the best. You just have to remember to work slowly and have someone with you, and to really take it easy for that first week or so and work on the mobility work from the 2nd video you posted as you are able to so that you start actively using the passive ROM you gain from the stretching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qux Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Thank you again for your explanation. I have been looking for arched back stretchers, but I only found good ones in the US and I'm from germany.For example: http://www.amazon.com/North-American-He ... _lmf_tit_2I consider to get (buy or build) a foam roller instead. Is this a viable option?For weight I could use a 35 lbs kettlebell, but i will look for something heavier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Just use what works, don't get too caught up with numbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donar Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thank you again for your explanation. I have been looking for arched back stretchers, but I only found good ones in the US and I'm from germany.For example: http://www.amazon.com/North-American-He ... _lmf_tit_2I consider to get (buy or build) a foam roller instead. Is this a viable option?For weight I could use a 35 lbs kettlebell, but i will look for something heavier.A foam roller should work fine. Just go to Obi or something similar and get pvc pipe with different diameters (5cm, 7,5cm, 10cm). Costs basically nothing.Also, to help avoid lumbar extension, it is a good idea to squeeze the glutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qux Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Just use what works, don't get too caught up with numbers! I will try to do that. However, I'm dealing with this issue for 2 years now and i'm kind of annoyed/impatient because of that. Donar, thank you for your advice. I have found a video-tutorial for building a foam roller. If anybody is interested, it is in german with english subtitles:LePffrEpe8A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stejskal Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Your scapula are dysfunctional. You need to re-learn how to use them and correct your posture and form. .Is this what you are getting at?http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006092 ... PDKIKX0DER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 That's pete egoscue, but that book is a lot more difficult to digest than Pain Free. There are many ways to go about fixing the posture and I don't care what anyone does as long as they do something that works.In my experience, and this is just my experience, the upper back is difficult to re-mobilize and simply requires long sessions.In Pain Free, Mr. Egoscue relates several client experiences where they had a 3 hour initial session, straight through, to correct the posture. There was vomiting as the patient's equilibrium was substantially different once out of the "hunchback of Notre Dame" posture, but after that it took much shorter sessions to make the good posture more permanent.I am not directly using his methods I don't think, but they are good. I simply seem to require more aggressive methods. Possibly because I am very strong and very tight in the spine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvaro Antolinez Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 We should create a new post with all this info or it will get lost in the forum( nobody will look for it on a OAC post...) :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stejskal Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Right. Pain free is an updated version of the book I linked too. Pain Free is the book of his to buy.You may have referenced Pete Egoscue in earlier posts (I didn't read the entire thread). I just thought anyone interested in correcting posture, etc. (as you have been discussing in several posts and seems to be what you are focusing on now) would benefit from buying Pete's book. Its only $10 and then they would have "the basic idea" and "basic methodology" that they could reference whenever they wanted. Keep us updated on how your version of this is working for you. Sounds like its going great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 It is working well, my friends and I are noticing substantial improvements in functionality on me, they used to joke around about how ridiculously different the left and right side of my back looked when working. Everything is much, much more even and symmetrical in terms of activation now. It still takes a lot of conscious effort but I can move into a much better posture and I notice that my shoulders are held much further back without conscious effort due to something happening with the upper thoracic posture I am learning. Very similar to some African guys I know. I feel an adjustment happening in my right shoulder as well, it is very hard to quantify. I would say it is most likely the coracoclavicular ligaments lengthening back out but hard to say for sure. This is causing an overall redistribution of tension in my shoulder that is changing the way it moves for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingam Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Your scapula are dysfunctional. You need to re-learn how to use them and correct your posture and form. That much I can tell you 100% for certain. Beyond that, once you have taken at least 3-6 months to truly relearn scapular motion you will want to build your pull ups in all the grips and eventually start doing pull ups with ropes, and then climbing ropes.Make sure you use very slow (8-10s concentric and another 8-10s eccentric) movement exclusively for at least the first 3-4 weeks with a weight that allows perfect movement. I spent 8 weeks on this phase, personally. I am about 12 weeks in, and I have made substantial progress in many areas. I have to remember that I am not yet healthy enough for true strength training right now, and I expect my rehab to take me through the end of the summer, by which time I should have successfully integrated faster heavier movements on top of this core of very slow stability work. I am slowly starting that process now.If you don't do this, be prepared to have intermittent or consistent problems pretty much forever until you do decide to properly fix yourself. That's just the way it is, I wasn't thrilled at first but now that I am gaining steam I am absolutely loving how good I am feeling and I am finally doing things correctly. The strength will come later.I thought I was able to understand you. I am not so sure now. What was your problem?What should I do for 8-10 secs? Pull-ups?I have tried a few times to hang on a bar and to move my shoulders up and down but I don't feel that I am moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Magneshaugen Ullerud Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 You do realise that would mean only ~7000 people in the world could ever hope to do a oac... It's really sad how some people will believe anything because it's a 'statistic'.Was your post directed to me? If so, my post must have been unclear. I do not believe that the article in the OP or the claims of the man in the video i linked to has any validity at all. My posts might have given that impression. To me at least the OAC isn't much about genetics at all, and can be acquired by most people who are willing to lay down the work that is required. It's not a Victorian . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irongymnast Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 When you think that OAC requires you to lift at least 80% of your BW in a chin-up, I don't know. There shouldn't be many people that are willing to build up that kind of strength and all of the tendon conditioning that is required for the OAC. Jim of beastskills can only do two OAC and he has great strength and years of conditioning under his belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitnessTheFitness Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Jim of beastskills can only do two OAC and he has great strength and years of conditioning under his belt.In Jim's case I'd say it's just that he has tons of leg development since he also has a focus on powerlifting. and has a pretty beastly deadlift and backsquat. With athletes like rock climbers, who don't have all that extra muscle mass and specialize in pulling, being able to do 3+ OAC seems to be fairly common among advanced and pro climbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilllamas Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Sounds like rubbish!When on climbing forums lots of people harp on about genetics too (as an excuse for being rubbish usually)`genetics` in things like climbing, and a (relatively, when compared with advanced gymnastics) basic move like the one arm pull up aren't that much of an issue I don't think, providing you're not naturally 250lb with little to no work!Allot of climbers I see can do them, using only a few fingers- it's what having massive lats and forearms but no chest, legs triceps and only a bit of core strength seems to do!I'm still working towards OAC... making allot of progress recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_ar Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Yeah, I'd say that statistic is more of a "Victorian" statistic, not one arm chin up. I'd believe that number for a Victorian on rings or maybe a floor inverted planche. This is mere conjecture but I assume if a OAC had a place in the code of points it would be somewhere around a B skill. Just guessing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sapinoso Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 excellent news: I am now "the .00001%" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDERIC DUPONT Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 You do realise that would mean only ~7000 people in the world could ever hope to do a oac... It's really sad how some people will believe anything because it's a 'statistic'.Hummmmm...... 7,000,000,000 x 0.00001% = 700, not 7,000 I think this statistic is not based in any fact; remember, 78,96% of all stats found on internet were made up on the spot! :shock: FredPS: Yes, I made it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 excellent news: I am now "the .00001%"Um... have you seen your training videos? You have ALWAYS been "the .00001%"!! :shock: !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sapinoso Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 excellent news: I am now "the .00001%"Um... have you seen your training videos? You have ALWAYS been "the .00001%"!! :shock: !! lol even though this statistic is crap, it's just my way of saying that my OAC is FINALLY looking semi clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiyafan Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Think about it, just China alone probably has more gymnasts and acrobats than 0.00001% of the world population, not to mention Russia and USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilllamas Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Rubbish.I'm the polar oposite of a natural athelete- its taken my a long, long time, to get above average strength...Although I'm a natural ectomorph, and lanky... I'm very close to the OAC.And I'v seen big guys do em, exactly the type who SHOULDN'T be able to according to this.I'd say any youngish male who trains for it could get one, and some more gifted older guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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