Larry Roseman Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Any thoughts on this supplement? It seems to have a pretty good evidence base for it.It was popular maybe 20 years ago but then the price was high, and results were mostly only demonstratedfor he untrained. However it seems like there have been more studies since then, and the price has come down.According to this, http://www.jappl.org/content/94/2/651.full , only HMB and Creatine have been provento be effective for strength and body composition improvements. Even protein hasn't been according to this,which was surprising. However, there was a conflict of interest exposed in that the author is the patent holderof HMB. That doesn't make the review wrong, but shows a bias.This review however seems to be balance, and more recent:http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pd ... 75-5-1.pdfThis material explains how it works, and explains the safety:http://abbottnutrition.com/downloads/re ... review.pdfThe price has come down to around $20 a month so it's in the ballpark of making sense to try at any rate.Nothing replaces hard work and basic nutrition, however especially for older folks who are trying to turn back the clock somewhat, something that seems to offer this much potential is appealing.Any thoughts appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 The majority of unbiased research shows that it has virtually no effect. You're much better off spending that money on a Leucine supplement, either L-Leucine or Leucine KIC, and adding that to your pre and post-workout drinks. This is especially effective in older individuals, as opposed to HMB which doesn't do much of anything for anyone.You can always try it, there doesn't seem to be any negative associated effects other than efficient money wasting (probably). The major issue is always going to be nutrient timing and energy availability, but within that your best money is on creatine (although there is research showing that creatine supplementation is really equivalent to an extra 100 kcal of carbs) and leucine. Always take that leucine with your protein, not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/l-leucine-1-kilo.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Roseman Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Ok thanks Josh. I wasn't aware of the benefits of L-leucine specifically for older folks. Will check into it.By the way I fixed the broken links above. I'm sure you have your own sources in any event.Edit: I have a problem taking Creatine. Really retain water and my BP shoots up. I tried several times and justgave it up because of that. At least by some reports BP goes down with HMB. L-leucine seems wortha shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 have you tried CEE, CM, Kre-Alkalyn, etc? Just curious whether this has happened with multiple delivery forms or not, because CEE and Kre-Alkalyn specifically do a good job of not retaining water due to lower dosages.What were your doses? You don't need more than 3g per day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Just read the HMB write up you linked to, unsure what to think...I am just not sure about it, but you can always try. The leucine is known to produce good results, especially in older individuals, so I tend to go with what has the most support in research and athlete experience. HMB is a very mixed bag, unsure what to think. Since they work through different pathways, it is probably not a bad idea to take both.I took HMB when I was 19 as a part of my first supplement purchase from EAS for the Body for Life program and had great results, but I was A) eating perfectly, B) young, C) taking creatine, and D) taking protein. Impossible to say what contributed what. Without question, a solid diet is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Roseman Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 You know, I haven't tried Creatine for several years, and don't recall the dose exactly. 5g perhaps?CEE might be worth trying. Would you also suggest 3g for CEE, or is less possible? They claim a lower doesethan monohydrate is required...I would just take it before workouts.I'm willing to try any of these things for a few months, as long as stopping it doesn't cause a regression or withdrawl symptoms Will the level of strength acheived during use be able to maintained after stopping? That's what bugs me about these studies as they rarely show what happens afterwards. I don't want to become "addicted" to them for life, as much the supplement companies would like me to I have to agree that nutrition and workouts are the main thing. I've been maintaining a healthy diet and a fairly level energy balance the past few weeks. Have been able to recover well so have increased my workouts to 3x week with noticeable results actually.The supplements might just be a crutch to give me more confidence to go harder, and may not be truly needed. I guess a placebo effect isn't bad either In fact, I should market a pill called "Placebo-FX" - it's been proven effective in thousands of studies, tens of thousands of athletes and only $99 for year supply! Order now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Creatine has no acute effects on strength, only repeat bouts. Just so you know, performance-wise 100kcal of extra carbs gives the same effect as creatine supplementation. There is no weight gain, so it is quite possible that in the long run (over a year or two of consistent training + supplementation) that the creatine would produce the bigger, stronger athlete. Whether that would be a better performing athlete or a bigger athlete with identical performance... who knows?I'd go with CEE or Kre-Alkalyn... I am biased towards the krealkalyn, but they are both good. With krealkalyn I use 1/4 tsp before and after workouts, and with the CEE I always used more like 1 tsp before and after, but I don't know the official recommendations for CEE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDERIC DUPONT Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (...) it is quite possible that in the long run the creatine would produce the bigger, stronger athlete. Whether that would be a better performing athlete or a bigger athlete with identical performance... who knows? (...) WOW! I find it shocking that we do not know that! :shock: A little bit more research funds, and less crappy marketing would go a long way here! 8) Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Long term studies are just too expensive... It's a shame, but what can you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDERIC DUPONT Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Long term studies are just too expensive... It's a shame, but what can you do?In a perfect world, we would ask ourselves if we can really afford not to do them! :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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