3-5 reps

[Guest Ragnarok]

This may be dumb but i just don't really know how this is: when they say here you do 3-5 reps for strength with the exercises, and rest 3-5min between sets, does this mean 3-5RM reps or what? What is the RM?

[Joshua Naterman]

That kind of thinking doesn't work with bodyweight work. You have to stick to the most difficult position that you can hold perfectly for all reps and all sets.

[FedorG]

I think he means how close to failure (and maybe which failure like technical failure, strength failure and so on) are you going when training the 3-5reps. Do you go all out or do you leave a couple of reps in the tank?

[Guest Ragnarok]

  FedorG said:

I think he means how close to failure (and maybe which failure like technical failure, strength failure and so on) are you going when training the 3-5reps. Do you go all out or do you leave a couple of reps in the tank?

Yes, that's exactly what i meant.

[Joshua Naterman]

Last good rep on the last set or two. You can't go to last good rep every single set if you are trying to do 5 sets of 5 reps, you won't be able to hit 5 reps each time without enormous rest times. For true strength work, that's kind of ideal but it takes a long time and forces you to focus on one exercise for like an hour. Not the peak of training efficiency when you're trying to learn a lot of different skills and strengths.

[Guest Ragnarok]

  Joshua Naterman said:

Last good rep on the last set or two. You can't go to last good rep every single set if you are trying to do 5 sets of 5 reps, you won't be able to hit 5 reps each time without enormous rest times. For true strength work, that's kind of ideal but it takes a long time and forces you to focus on one exercise for like an hour. Not the peak of training efficiency when you're trying to learn a lot of different skills and strengths.

I see. So what would your max have to be in order for the last set or two to be the ones with the last good rep?

I've always trained like this, i.e. to always go to last good rep in every single set and i've been able to do the same number of reps on all sets, sometimes only 1-2 less but only on some exercises.On many exercises ive done the same number on all sets resting only 3 min between sets or supersetting like the poliquin article. Lately ive been trying to correct this. With the hypertrophy routine i got this down already, but i don't know how to do it with strength yet.

[FedorG]

  Joshua Naterman said:

Last good rep on the last set or two. You can't go to last good rep every single set if you are trying to do 5 sets of 5 reps, you won't be able to hit 5 reps each time without enormous rest times. For true strength work, that's kind of ideal but it takes a long time and forces you to focus on one exercise for like an hour. Not the peak of training efficiency when you're trying to learn a lot of different skills and strengths.

For strength it's also good to stay away from failure or close to failure sets and have a higher frequency. A lot of people have really good progress with systems who base on high frequency and lifts around 70-85% of 1RM. Sheiko is a good example in powerlifting for that kind of training. Also the norway team in powerlifting have a crazy high freuqency and having great results. They do the competition lifts or a version the comp lifts 4-5 times a week but with lighter loads. Dietmar Wolf is the head coach of the team and he got a lot of inspiration from the training of olympic lifters who also train with a really high frequency. Personally I benefit the most when training with a high freuqency and staying away from failure. But I have no experience from gymnastic training so I don't know the case here hehe I know you didn't write that for true strength work it's good to go to failure but a "last good rep" means close to failure or at least a struggle?

Here is a video from the great powerlifter Carl Yngvar Christensen born 1990 from Norway who trains with these principles. I know powerlifting isn't interesting for the average person here on GB but maybe someone will like it =)

297JRRmv1Ag

[Guest Ragnarok]

So how would it be?

[FedorG]

  Ragnarok said:

So how would it be?

Joshua said only the last one or two sets should have a good last rep. So l think that means you leave a couple of reps in the tank until the last sets of the exercise.

[Nic Branson]

Even the last should have a rep left in the tank. It should be challenging at the end but doable.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

  Nic Branson said:

Even the last should have a rep left in the tank. It should be challenging at the end but doable.

At first, start with the last set to calibrate your reps... :shock:

[Joshua Naterman]

  Nic Branson said:

Even the last should have a rep left in the tank. It should be challenging at the end but doable.

Exactly. Ideally, the last set should be to your last known good rep, which should feel like you may have one more behind it. Usually you won't. If your last set is 5 reps and for whatever reason you feel like you can do 8 perfect ones, go for it (and if #3 feels like the last good one, stop there) ... just stop when you feel like you "MIGHT" have one more. That last one that you "might" have is usually the first bad one, not the last good one.

If you have a workout where you are not really focusing in on one particular movement then you will be better off leaving 1-2 reps in the tank even on the last sets... the last few reps make a big difference when performed on every single exercise. That will leave you drained, which usually isn't ideal.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

  Joshua Naterman said:

(...) That last one that you "might" have is usually the first bad one, not the last good one (...)

This is true, I've noticed that too... it is funny how that works.

[Guest Ragnarok]

Oh yeah yeah I totally forgot slizzardman had already answered this, sorry for asking again. I just forgot.

This is what he had said:

"That is definitely pushing it to the limit. If you are going to do, for example, 5 sets of 5 reps, you should be using a weight or variation that you know you can get 7-8 good reps with. That 5th rep should not be your last good rep unless it is set # 4 or 5."

[Guest Ragnarok]

  Joshua Naterman said:

Exactly. Ideally, the last set should be to your last known good rep, which should feel like you may have one more behind it. Usually you won't. If your last set is 5 reps and for whatever reason you feel like you can do 8 perfect ones, go for it (and if #3 feels like the last good one, stop there) ... just stop when you feel like you "MIGHT" have one more. That last one that you "might" have is usually the first bad one, not the last good one.

If you have a workout where you are not really focusing in on one particular movement then you will be better off leaving 1-2 reps in the tank even on the last sets... the last few reps make a big difference when performed on every single exercise. That will leave you drained, which usually isn't ideal.

Yeah i've felt this before, when you're doing every rep perfect and then all of a sudden you start doing it kinda struggling and you start to kinda lose form but you can still do 3 or 2 more probably.

So this is mostly done by feel.

So when do you increase reps? To progress, can you, say, start off doing 5x5 or 3x5, then go all the way till you can do 3x8-10 with the same weight/exercise, then start over again at 3-5 reps with more weight/another variation? Is this how it works? Will you be able to progress like this?

In Pavel's book he shows like 3 cycles, linear, wave and step, i think. The step one seems the easiest and simplest one so i like it. Is the step cycle kinda like the SSC?

[Rik de Kort]

  Ragnarok said:

So when do you increase reps? To progress, can you, say, start off doing 5x5 or 3x5, then go all the way till you can do 3x8-10 with the same weight/exercise, then start over again at 3-5 reps with more weight/another variation? Is this how it works? Will you be able to progress like this?

That's exactly how it works. Unless you can microload with a weight vest or ankle weights or something. In that case, you can add weight until you're strong enough to do the next variation.

[Guest Ragnarok]

  Rik de Kort said:

  Ragnarok said:

So when do you increase reps? To progress, can you, say, start off doing 5x5 or 3x5, then go all the way till you can do 3x8-10 with the same weight/exercise, then start over again at 3-5 reps with more weight/another variation? Is this how it works? Will you be able to progress like this?

That's exactly how it works. Unless you can microload with a weight vest or ankle weights or something. In that case, you can add weight until you're strong enough to do the next variation.

That's great. I didn't think it would be that simple. Me likey.