Best Protein Powder!

[igalk474]

couple of stuff i've notices about gainer

Is that most of them filled with lots of sugar

called maltodextrin

And most of the gainer carbs come from high gi non complex carbs

Some are complex but still high gi

Which can result in mass gain, but usually not lean muscle

maybe all this too much sugar, can also cause diabetes

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Read the periworkout ideal nutrition thread

Do this now before you p!ss off Joshuah Naterman again!

[igalk474]

thanks!

i already said i'm eating 4-6 healthy meals a day,

usually a meal every 3 hours

of course powder is not a food replacment

it's just when i come back from from training to home,

it can take 1.5.2 hours,

and i usually miss the 1 hour window after training ended to eat,

so exactly at this time i want to add the powder

not instead meals

so i think that the first step to gaining muscle,

is not losing muscle, and then add

i think abs are made by both gym and kitchen for best results

an other concern i have about powder is that in addition to the sugars it has,

i need to drink it with mlik 600-700ml, every day

also it has some cholesterol

now, usually i don't drink milk and don't eat diary products,

maybe 1-2 glass a month,

so for me to take milk every day, is not obviouse,

whats you thought about drinking 600-700ml milk a day?

i don't think we have here the raw unpasturized milk

maybe we have cocunut milk

but it's not the same

[igalk474]

because with water it will probably won't taste good,

So with milk it will

2g is fine, i was talking about 50g+,

currently i'm focusing on gainers

ON serious mass is my favorite right now

it has 10g sugars/maltodextrin

also

ON pro complex gainer

And

BSN true mass

I've tested the perfect 3000 with a bodybuilder friend

That had it

It doesn't smell at all

and iy tastes good, then i've found out

It's 80% sugars/maltodextrin

So i'm not takeing it

[Mats Trane]

  Joshua Naterman said:

I guarantee you it is the best investment you can make. Seriously. There is nothing more valuable than being able to look at a picture of your day and then seeing exactly where you can make improvements... you will be 100% blown away by the improvements you see if you manage to actually fix the problems that show up.

Josh, do you think this Ap would work well outside the US? I can see that the database has a whole bunch och US items and do you know if it handles metric system grams kilograms etc?

[Rik de Kort]

Here is a study on whole milk, indicating some interesting things. First, it's pretty much 'common knowledge' to only take protein and carbs postworkout in order to maximize protein. However, in the study, the whole milk actually got higher protein synthesis than skim milk, even when compensating for caloric contents.

My point being here is that whole milk could make for a very good PWO shake, I think. Hopefully Josh will chime in.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

  Mats Trane said:

(...) Josh, do you think this Ap would work well outside the US? I can see that the database has a whole bunch och US items and do you know if it handles metric system grams kilograms etc?

Yes it does have metric, and so far I've been able to find more or less the equivalent of the foods I eat here (in China).

(I could not find Nutella in the data base, so I am using peanut butter instead... that'll do! 8) )

@Rik: Isn't milk rich in VitD3 that would explain the apparent anabolic effect?

[Rik de Kort]

  FredInChina said:

  Mats Trane said:

(...) Josh, do you think this Ap would work well outside the US? I can see that the database has a whole bunch och US items and do you know if it handles metric system grams kilograms etc?

Yes it does have metric, and so far I've been able to find more or less the equivalent of the foods I eat here (in China).

(I could not find Nutella in the data base, so I am using peanut butter instead... that'll do! 8) )

@Rik: Isn't milk rich in VitD3 that would explain the apparent anabolic effect?

That's what I read as well, but the author of the article specifically states that there hasn't been done any real research.

[Mats Trane]

  FredInChina said:

Yes it does have metric, and so far I've been able to find more or less the equivalent of the foods I eat here (in China).

(I could not find Nutella in the data base, so I am using peanut butter instead... that'll do! 8) )

thanks Fred. As a user outside of the USA, are you happy with the results?

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

  Mats Trane said:

thanks Fred. As a user outside of the USA, are you happy with the results?

You are welcome.

Yes, it is a great product, BUT it requires a lot of work to (1) keep track of things in real time, (2) find the correct entries in the data base, and (3) know the quantities I am eating...

Just the brainpower needed to use Nutritiming burns enough calories in itself making the app redundant!

I've spent the day chasing after 1,000 calories deficit that I could not catch, no matter what I ate! Then tonight we had mussels and water bamboo; I have no idea of the quantities, nor of the nutritional value... That made the whole thing fail!

The usefulness is as much in the learning curve as in the app function IMHO...

Just visualizing the cal on the graph for a few days cover 80% of what you need to adjust I think.

The last 20% require a lot of efforts.

[Joshua Naterman]

  Rik de Kort said:

Here is a study on whole milk, indicating some interesting things. First, it's pretty much 'common knowledge' to only take protein and carbs postworkout in order to maximize protein. However, in the study, the whole milk actually got higher protein synthesis than skim milk, even when compensating for caloric contents.

My point being here is that whole milk could make for a very good PWO shake, I think. Hopefully Josh will chime in.

It does! According to research from Harvard University, 1% chocolate milk is the overall best choice for post-workout nutrition. That was compared to protein powders, skim milk, whole milk, all kinds of stuff.

You definitely want to have a whole meal WITH all three macronutrients, but you do want it to be liquid immediately post-WO. Coconut oil would be a bit more ideal in terms of fat content just because it doesn't reduce gastric emptying time, but that is also directly related to the amount of fat per unit volume in the stomach. 1% milk apparently has a low enough fat concentration to get through the stomach very quickly. The chocolate syrup is just extra sugar, but the results are definitely clear:

You want to have enough carbs to replace what you burned in the workout, enough protein to maximize synthesis, and some fat. Getting too crazy with the numbers is a bit silly, but it's probably reasonable to say that 15-20g of protein, 20-40g of carbs (as a baseline, to be adjusted based on your size and weight and calories burned during exercise), and 3-5g of fat in your post-workout shake. That would be a scoop of protein (or slightly less), 2-4 flat tablespoons of glucose, and 1 teaspoon of oil of your choice if you were to re-create the chocolate milk concept from single components. You would want that in 32 ounces (1 liter) of water.

Edit: You also want electrolytes, like 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon of table salt or sea salt, and as you get older some extra leucine is important also. Seems like the leucine is most important as you get to 30 and older. You're looking at 7-8g of leucine added to the protein for the clinical effects.

[Joshua Naterman]

  Mats Trane said:

  Joshua Naterman said:

I guarantee you it is the best investment you can make. Seriously. There is nothing more valuable than being able to look at a picture of your day and then seeing exactly where you can make improvements... you will be 100% blown away by the improvements you see if you manage to actually fix the problems that show up.

Josh, do you think this Ap would work well outside the US? I can see that the database has a whole bunch och US items and do you know if it handles metric system grams kilograms etc?

Oh yes, it works well everywhere. I use the metric stuff a lot, I tend to know all the grams of everything I eat more or less.

I absolutely agree that Nutri-timing is somewhat difficult to use in real time. I haven't written the "How To" thread yet, but it is much better to pre-plan the meals using Nutritiming and what you know of your normal days. We tend to have patterns, and knowing your patterns ( when you eat, how long you work out, when you work out) allows you to pre-plan your days. That way you know what to do ahead of time. That is one "advantage" to the advantage account... It tends to force you to do things that way since you can't be at your computer all day, while the app version is always there and can promote some last minute work. It's pretty quick, takes 2-3 minutes to put something in, but that's time that may be annoying.

For foods that aren't in the database, you can create custom foods where you enter the nutritional data yourself and then it will come up automatically just like the foods from the database! I have several of these on my account.

[Daniel Burnham]

I have some experience in mass gain. I went from 125 to 160 in about 2.5 years. Ive used weight gainer and a gallon of milk a day and now a similar regimen to what Josh has mentioned. The first two brought muscle but with fat. Im not big by any means but I have found that just eating the correct calories, getting some kind of post-workout drink in (milk, or a reasonable amount of whey and carbs) and healthy eating habits give the best results. I have been gaining a steady amount of weight consistent with my training without thinking about it much for the last couple of months. This is with a drop in fat. Nutritiming has also opened my eyes to some of the hours when I was not getting exactly what I needed (late afternoon slump in calories). There are no shortcuts. Ive found that the body is able to put on only a consistent amount of muscle and trying to push any more usually results in fat gain.

[igalk474]

i registered for the nutritiming advantage,

it told me i need at least 2200 calories a day

[Quick Start Test Smith]

It's most likely correct assuming you put the correct numbers. Make sure your numbers (weight, bf%, etc.) stay roughly accurate so that NutriTiming can adjust to them and you don't end up eating too little or too much.

[Joshua Naterman]

  igalk474 said:

i registered for the nutritiming advantage,

it told me i need at least 2200 calories a day

Is that before you put in any exercise?

Put in your workouts and training sessions, and what you eat. Don't adjust it to make the numbers match. You will need to keep a food diary to do this properly, and actually measure your food for those days. Best way to do this is to put it on a plate like normal and THEN measure it.

Put those numbers in and check out your graph. That will let you see everything you are doing right and everything you need to improve on.

[igalk474]

yeah i have put the workouts,

it's 2200 with them

i should add the food, but everyday i sometimes eat different stuff, so it's not exactly the same meals

it's not easy tracking number for each meal like that

[Joshua Naterman]

It's not easy to be a great athlete.

I am not sure your workouts are fully reflected there. How long are they? Are you practicing all events? Are you just training for fun?

What do you weigh?

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

  Joshua Naterman said:

It's not easy to be a great athlete. (...)

That sums it up nicely

[igalk474]

  Joshua Naterman said:

It's not easy to be a great athlete.

I am not sure your workouts are fully reflected there. How long are they? Are you practicing all events? Are you just training for fun?

What do you weigh?

you right,

i'm going to count it,

1.5 hours every day at night,

i'm practicing mainly on rings, on breaks i do some pommel horse/mushroom, floor/trampoline,parallel bars,

but it's mainly rings, most of the time i do swings

not training just for fun,

it's very fun , but i want to be competitive in less then 10 years,

and get to a good level on rings, only rings

i weight 46 kg , i want to get to 54kg (+8kg)

[igalk474]

ok, i have some results from my protein/gainers testings:

this is what i've tested (all vanilla flavour):

BSN - True-Mass

Optimum Nutrition - Serious Mass

Optimum Nutrition - Pro Complex Gainer

Dymatize - Elite Mass Gainer

Ultimate Nutrition - Iso Mass Xtreme Gainer

MHP - Up Your Mass

here are the results:

i loved BSN - True-Mass the most,

both because flavour and effectivness and quality

has a 1.4:1 carbs to protein ratio

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/true.html

also on amazon

the only downsides are maybe the price,but if you search you can find lower, also it has

a little more cholesterol and fat then the other 2 gainers, probably this is the reason it tastes so good

then there is serious mass,

which doesn't taste as good as true mass,

but still good, i think it has too much sugar

has a 5:1 carbs to protein ratio

then there is pro complex gainer,

which is pretty good, but not the best, not as effective as true mass

has a 1.4:1 carbs to protein ratio

all the rest is total junk, ineffective , and lower quality

complete waste of money, and don't deliver what they've promised on the packaging

i think 1.4:1 carbs to protein ratio

is the best , this way you have less risk it will turn into fat or you having diabetes,

and more chance to gain lean muscle mass

i was able to find true mass on 34$ maybe you can find some good discount

to get it at even lower price,and not 79$ retail price,

i tested the vanilla, which is great, but i heard it's not the best,

i heard good stuff on the Strawberry Milkshake & Chocolate Milkshake flavours,

still didn't tested them,

but i will test all the 5 flavours in a couple of months, and tell you which one is the best,

i don't trust the reviews on bodybuilding as most of them made by different people who tried different flavour,

so every review was tested with different starndards, when i test them i'm familiar with all the other tastes and can compare them more accurately and with higher standarts,

so if i recommend it , i truely know it's the best thing out there,

then i would not need to think about it, when i want to get a lean mass gainer,

i will know exactly which company ,which product and which flavour, in which store/discount and what kind of shippment,

and maybe buy in bulk to reduce future costs

also after i find a taste that i like the most for true mass,

i will test it both with milk and test it with water,

and compare

with true mass i take 2 scoops , and not the 3 scoops recommnded dosage,

as the protein quantity will be too high,

this way i'm getting:

420 calories

33g protein

46.6g carbohydrates

also vitmins , minerals and bcaa

also an other question i have,

i heard from brandon wynn a different methodology:

which is to make your own gainer manually:

1st phorm company have this products:

http://www.1stphorm.com/products/men/phormula-1

protein (hydrolized...)

http://www.1stphorm.com/products/men/ignition

(carbohydrate-Pure Dexanhydrous Glucose Crystals)

and you mix both(1 scoop protein,2 scoop carbs) with milk, and drink

which method is better,

getting a gainer which is ready to use,

or getting the ingridients for a gainer and making it by yourself?

thanks!

[Daniel Burnham]

Mix ingredients. I always buy maltodextrin and protein seperately then mix them in the ratios I want.

you can mix whole foods too. I carry some type of slow carb to work with me like quinoa or buckwheat and mix it with some protein I have on hand like whey or whole eggs or even chicken. cheaper than buying powder and you get vitamins other nutrients as well. Not to mention better bm's.

Basically mix and match based on schedule and need. There is nothing special about weight gainer.

[Blairbob]

Ehh, I don't see the point of a gainer, especially as a gymnast. I know you are skinny but you're just paying for sugary carbs basically.

Personally, I'm not a fan of isolate or hydrosalate whey protein unless you are lactose intolerant or really have a need to be 0 carb. A good whey concentrate still has relatively little calories, fat, and carbs. Absorption times are highly over sensationalized as for isolates and hydrosalates compared to a good whey concentrate.

[igalk474]

but when you mix , doesn't it affect the taste?

in comparision to a complete product that was designed and engineered thogheter for best taste and result

thanks

i'll try your suggestions

this is my current supplements stack:

i recommend it , it's pretty good

pre workout: Cellucor C4 Extreme(Orange/Fruit Punch)

creatin/glutamin: BSN Cell-Mass (Arctic Berry Blast)

protein/gainer: BSN True-Mass(Vanilla Ice Cream / Strawberry Milkshake)

multi-vitamin: Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men

fish oil(omega 3): Carlson labs Very Finest Fish Oil (Lemon)

usage:

30 minutes pre workout

Cellucor C4 Extreme (1 scoop with water)

Cellmass- immediately post workout(1 scoop with water),

then 15-60 min later take True Mass gainer (1g protein per pound of bodyweight, or 2 scoops) with milk

cycle it, 3 months maximum take,1 month minimum don't take.

first 4 weeks

Carlson labs - Very Finest Fish Oil

1g per body fat%,

after 4 weeks cut dosage in half & take from time to time

not everyday like before

on weekends/every 2 weeks

1 opti-men pill

(or opti-women if you are a women)

here it is:

[Daniel Burnham]

They are "engineered" to taste good by adding a lot of artificial flavors. I dont really care what my suplements taste like as I generally chug them down. I use them sparingly and try to stay fairly cheap while using HIGH QUALITY. You can buy flavors seperately. TrueProtein.com sells the flavors as little bottles and you can mix all you want.

Im not sure what celluar extremeis supposed to be but I assume its something like a mixture of creatine, some type of nitric oxide supplement and maybe some caffeine. Nitric has pretty much no effect on your workout. Though caffiene will. But it is much better to drink green tea before the workout. I often drink either green tea or yerba mate and feel great. Cheaper and comes with antioxidants.

As for the mass gainer, why would you want to cycle it? Does it have an extra amount of creatine? If so I would check to see how much total creatine you have coming in. I am of the opinion that its not too healthy to have that much creatinine floating around in your body. Also 1g per bodyweight is an insane amount to have post workout. If I recall correctly there isnt much benefit to having over 20g of protein immediately post workout (from science and practice of strength training).

The multi vitamin and the fishoil are pretty good. Just dont get caught in the advertising of these products. Im willing to bet that most of the people on this board have done so in the past, me included, and have found that following something like what is laid out in the perfect pre and post workout supplementation thread is more effective and way cheaper.