Rock climber.

[RockAddict]

Hi everybody.

I'm a rock climber returning to training after too much work, and no time! I've been off the rock for about 15 years now. I am basically seeking control over my body weight which is exactly what gymnasts (and the best rock climbers) have.

I have built a "woody" climbing wall in my garage to train finger strength and technique. I really want that phenomenal pulling and pressing strength that John Gill and his followers developed.

Back in the 90s I was training for rock climbing all the time. We used to do "Bachar Ladders" named after Californian rock climber John Bachar. These were overhanging rope ladders, and the idea was to start with hands on different rungs about 2 feet apart and go to a locked position with your chin over a rung, then statically reach the lower hand through for the next rung and then continue to the top.

The rungs were spaced at about 1 foot intervals to allow progression. I used to be able to do alternate rungs with a completely static lock while reaching for the next one. As far as one arm pullups are concerned, I never made it. I could release a lock, go down to 90 degrees and pull back up. But I never got the full pullup from straight arm.

I lost all this strength when I moved for work, and kind of lost touch with training, bouldering and climbing.

I just bought some rings, and have begun the most basic excercises from reading here and watching youtube videos. I have to say, ring training is powerful medicine. I can do dips on bars, but I do not have the stability to perform a single free dip on rings. I use heels on a bench. Even just knee raises while locked above the rings is difficult, and I'm shaking by the time I get to 10! I do body rows with heels on a bench, flys with knees on the floor (not going very low), and extending my hands straight out in front of me with knees on the floor (to an almost horizontal position) Just 5 attempts.

After that, my whole upper body is throbbing. I never felt anything like it! Why did I not discover this before?

I'm determined to climb better now than I ever did before. I just turned 50, but I'm very fit having turned to road cycling as a way to keep fit while saving time.

My first hard effort back at climbing training:

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See how weak I am on that initial crossthrough? I have to really throw for the hold and it's a 1/3 success rate with snagging it. And then that right hand lock at 0:27 where I bring my left hand up to match on the hold. I'm sagging under it and barely holding the lock!

Are there any other climbers or boulderers here with advice or routines to increase the climbing-specific strengths?

[Piotr Ochocki]

Hi,

Don't worry about shake on rings at the beginning - this is normal. Keep practicing support holds, etc for time and in 3-4 weeks you will notice improvement as your muscles that work to stabilize position on rings get used to load and get stronger.

Not climber myself, but I would say for next 2-3 months go through typical conditioning program to get back basic strength and start preparing body for more load (pullups, pushups/dips, core, shoulder/elbow/wrist prehab, etc) and do basic stuff on rings (support, inverted hang) - plenty of info can be found in relevant forum sections.

Just don't overload yourself, you don't want to injure yourself now.

[Andrew Long]

hey!

I am also a keen rock climber mostly bouldering (V7 was my best though before I injured myself) and I have noticed a massive improvement from gymnastic bodies training especially when I started focusing more on scapula position when doing exercises. for example when doing pull ups or rows I specifically focus on pulling my shoulders down and back really contracting them hard before I start the pull and keeping them that way so not to round my shoulders forward at all. I have also been throwing in static holds at the top positions and my lock off times went from about 2 seconds to 15 seconds in no time at all! I never realised how much of a difference that scapula control could make but now I have suggested it too all my friends that climb and they too are noticing better results.

good luck with the climbing mate and have fun tearing off the flappers =P

[Vincent Stoyas]

Ausswe, is that a v7 outdoors? That's amazing.

I went from v4s to solid v6s and started to work v7s indoors after I started my gymnastics training. I don't even train gymnastics frequently, but the results were extremely apparent.

For a structured workout that leaves energy to climb too, I liked the Killroy Template. Only one pair of exercises each day, but that's plenty. For me anyways, perhaps you need more. Depends on your goals. I do the WODs now, but that's because there isn't really much climbing around me anymore since I moved. I did go to Joshua tree though recently and I rocked out some v2s and a v3 and I haven't even climbed in a year or two. So the WODs will work, but they tax me much more than having my own SSC.

Impressive you can lockout on the rings already. More time spent on the rings will get rid of the shaking, just have to keep doing it. I'd get rid of straight arm flyes if I were you, build your elbows and such up first.

Just take it slow and enjoy.

[RockAddict]

Thanks for the replies.

What specific exercises can I use to build up my elbows and shoulders?

I did notice last time I was strong and close to the one arm pullup that the inner point of my elbow joint got painful. And also my shoulders hurt.

I do not have time for injury setbacks now I'm in my... ahem "late" forties :wink:

My goal is to climb f7b+ sport climbs thus year and f8a in 2013.

[FritsMB Mansvelt Beck]

Rock climber, if you train systematically on your rings you will develop your core strength, arm strength and your shoulder strength much more than with climbing. It will take time and and a certain amount of discipline. You will find that the approach to training is completely different from how sports climbers and boulderers train. With sports climbing and bouldering you typically push very hard to failure; with quite a bit of BtGB training you typically do repetitions at 50% to 60% of your max, while concentrating on good form (of course there is a whole lot more to it and you can find that in the book and on this forum).

Bouldering like you are doing in your video tends to be limited by finger strength, so finger strength is what you are training mostly. What you describe as “sagging†shows a lack of core strength, but you will not improve your core strength by bouldering until you are not limited by your finger strength.

You are fortunate to have a head start over most beginners here. Your arm strength is still much better than average. You have the wiry, light build of a typical sports climber. You are also highly motivated and have a clear goal (climbing better than before). You have good endurance and leg strength from biking. All of that will help you enormously with your BtGB exercises. Buy the BtGB book and (patiently) follow its progressions. The straight arm front and side flies with rings, that you are describing, never did much for me as an exercise to train my core strength. They tended to mostly load my elbows and shoulders (in a manner I don’t need for climbing). Good luck and have fun.

[Andrew Long]

A solid L-sit!

get a solid pull up so it is at least in the middle of your chest and then be able to hold it for a bit

Really focus on scapular motion when doing any movement on the wall so pull shoulder blades back and down every time until it is second nature!

like the above post says work rings even if you just hang out in support position or a dead hang

when you do climb focus more on technique than anything else trying to figure out what movement will be the least taxing while you use gymnastics training for strength mainly.

have a work out dedicated to fore arm/finger/hand stuff there is lots of different exercises for this made by climbers all over youtube and google ( go slowly with this like ya said you do not want injuries!)

evalute yourself what is your weakness when it comes to climbing? for me it was crimps I hated them and was afraid of them because I didnt want to get injured so I focused some time on working up my crimp strength and just last year I did a 7b crimper easily!

do handstands when ever possible ( just because it will make your shoulders sexier )

You could also try frenchies as apart of your FBE stuff ( dead hang pull half way hold for 2 seconds pull to top hold for 2 seconds back to half way hold for 2 seconds then dead hang again)

proper rows imo are just as important as pull ups with climbing training but i rarely see climbers do them! again its all about pulling the shouilders blades back and tight before pulling

I'd also suggest going for maximal strength first then adding more volume and getting more into endurance with your climbing practice. ( I have always found endurance comes quickly strength doesnt in comparison, for me at least!)

also figure out what your strength is in climbing then find a 7a that caters to your abilities for your first try! so if you are good at dynos then find something where the crux is a dyno if you are good at crimps find one where the crux is crimpy and so on.

I dont know what you are climbing at now but I am sure that a 7b isn't too far away for ya and if you get that this year work hard and consistently you may pull off an 8a next remember always try the difficult climb that works with your strength first! but when practicing in general work more on your weakness. i wish you luck mate!

[RockAddict]

Good advice. Thanks.

Yes, endurance has always come easily for me. Strength is very difficult and slow for me to build. I'm tall and skinny. I used to traverse a vertical outdoor sandstone wall with a diver's weight belt attached to me for hours.

But I couldn't climb very steep stuff like is fashionable in the Peak District. I could never do anything on the left hand end of Chee Dale Cornice, and nothing in the centre of Raven Tor. So I intend to do maximal efforts, few reps in my ring workouts. I'll rely on cycling to warm up and keep my weight down.

L sit, that's with locked arms above the rings and legs at 90 degrees? I can do that for just a few seconds. I'll work that.

I'd also love to do a front lever. A climbing mate of mine from years ago was into gym workouts and could do a font lever. When on climbing road trips he'd practice doing a front lever through the open door of the car with fingers crimped in the rain gutter and body horizontal through the car. He could also do muscle ups on a bar which I've always though would be great for climbing movements. I want to work towards these too.