Lucas Abner Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I made a video and wanted to know if the hip despite not being so high if could be called manna, had some students who called it manna...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWjuavh83Pothanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I made a video and wanted to know if the hip despite not being so high if could be called manna, had some students who called it manna...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWjuavh83Pothanks.I don't know if Manna is a hit/miss or like IC where it is recognized but deductions are given, but that guy (you, I assume) is pressing quite high and is very close to a recognizable Manna.Looks like the main thing that needs work is scapular retraction. You might actually press up into it if you're more retracted from the beginning and stay there, but you might just need to do slow presses up and eccentrics back down until you finally get high enough to really have the manna.Once you get the hips slightly in front of the hands, if you retract more and THEN start pressing up... perhaps with straddled legs until they are past vertical to make the press up slightly easier. Doing this with the retraction will give you some leverage to press higher, but may also be harder at first since it doesn't seem like you've practiced that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Abner Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 up and down slowly, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Sure. You move up at a pretty nice pace but you drop down. Instead of holding at the top every time, try controlling the lowering back down and doing that for reps. That should help build some strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Abner Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 Sure. You move up at a pretty nice pace but you drop down. Instead of holding at the top every time, try controlling the lowering back down and doing that for reps. That should help build some strength.but stand on top would not be better to come down slowly? I can hold it for 10 or 15 seconds... in case I'd better hold back some time and return slowly, would not be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 It's not quite horizontal but might get credit with deduction. Probably like -0.1. Work it straddling up and bringing it together at the top and doing it slowly/eccentrically down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Abner Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 It's not quite horizontal but might get credit with deduction. Probably like -0.1. Work it straddling up and bringing it together at the top and doing it slowly/eccentrically down.What does this mean ''-0.1''?I have another video here;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlMhiYHTux4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik de Kort Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 When you're competing in gymnastics, you get two scores: a D-score (difficulty) and E-score (execution). Difficulty is just which elements you perform and then that's totalled. So you get a certain number of points for the press into manna and whatever else you did in your exercise. For the E-score, you start with a 10, perfect score. Then for every mistake you made, you get deduction. The deduction varies based upon how large the error was. In this case, your manna wasn't fully horizontal, so 0.1 is deducted from your E-score.Hope that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Sure. You move up at a pretty nice pace but you drop down. Instead of holding at the top every time, try controlling the lowering back down and doing that for reps. That should help build some strength.but stand on top would not be better to come down slowly? I can hold it for 10 or 15 seconds... in case I'd better hold back some time and return slowly, would not be better?Yes. Hold it for 1-2 seconds and come down slowly, to the straddle V position and lift back up again. You need to have the retraction in place as your hips pass the fingertips if you really want to press up into a nice manna. Think shoulders back, chest out.Keep practicing top holds, but only with retraction, which may require assistance to achieve initially. You have to fix that habit I think, but I would prefer Coach to clarify this point directly. Perhaps if he sees this thread he will give an opinion on your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Abner Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Sure. You move up at a pretty nice pace but you drop down. Instead of holding at the top every time, try controlling the lowering back down and doing that for reps. That should help build some strength.but stand on top would not be better to come down slowly? I can hold it for 10 or 15 seconds... in case I'd better hold back some time and return slowly, would not be better?Yes. Hold it for 1-2 seconds and come down slowly, to the straddle V position and lift back up again. You need to have the retraction in place as your hips pass the fingertips if you really want to press up into a nice manna. Think shoulders back, chest out.Keep practicing top holds, but only with retraction, which may require assistance to achieve initially. You have to fix that habit I think, but I would prefer Coach to clarify this point directly. Perhaps if he sees this thread he will give an opinion on your position. I can train it how many times? I think if I do going one, in time I'll have less strength in the second going, and I will not go so far... but I will try before ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I can train it how many times? I think if I do going one, in time I'll have less strength in the second going, and I will not go so far... but I will try before ...That's how almost everything works, right? You will have to figure out what you need, you have done a very good job so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Nicely done! 8) Yes, that is definitely a manna. It is just needs a little work as it is still slightly below horizontal.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 From the exercise library:rX4zPm95dAY Your video:oWjuavh83Po I have taken the liberty of creating a side by side screenshot of the vertical leg position in each one. Notice the difference in the shoulder position at the vertical leg position:Notice that Coach's gymnast has knees near the eyes and that the upper back is very flat, with shoulders fairly well retracted. They have to be in order for the shoulder to be where it is with a flat back. This puts him into a position where he is better able to use leverage to lift the rest of the way by adjusting his bodyweight as well as using the triceps and rear delts.By comparison, your legs are vertical while your body is still vertical, and you have protracted shoulders which require you to use less muscular strength to lift up in the beginning but much much more later on since your upper back stays rounded the whole time and your shoulders have to retract with active muscular effort against a large load, instead of starting off retracted from a much easier position. As a result your lift relies on pure muscular strength in the hardest part of the lift instead of the easiest part.Next, compare your back and shoulders with Coach's gymnast when hips are even with shoulders. Look at the knee location on the face, look at back curvature, look at shoulders relative to the back curvature (this requires a little imagination since the curve of your back makes the protraction a little bit harder to distinguish. Picture here:This is caused primarily by not starting off more retracted earlier in the lift. It will take practice, but you can do it. You are very, very close. I honestly think that this difference in starting position is the primary thing that is getting in your way. It would be an extraordinary feat of balance and strength to be able to retract your shoulder blades from a protracted position in (or close to) your current top position, which you really need to do in order to continue moving higher up. By starting off retracted earlier you will gain the extra leverage that the retraction gives you later in the lift without anywhere near the effort (i don't know if this can be done so high up, honestly... there's just so much instability and such a large load).Does this help make what I was saying easier to see?By practicing with a different shoulder position I think you will succeed for sure. You have shown that you are a long-term consistent trainer, which is why I have taken the time to make this post for you. You may find you have some weak spots that will make the lower part of the lift difficult with the new position, but I think you will overcome these without enormous difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Abner Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Thanks Coach Sommer and Joshua Naterman...I really saw the difference... I can go up the same way for the manna, however, I can lose balance and fall, as happened several times, I think I better wait to get completely horizontal to be able to climb with ease...here appears to be a progress that I made;The video of attempt this photo; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNd6dreBie4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 If you can go up the way Coach's athlete does and you just lose your balance then it's just a new skill for you and you will probably be doing a manna in 3-4 months, maybe less. Having someone competent spot you at the lower back/hips and perhaps between the shoulderblades as well will dramatically shorten the learning curve.That definitely looks like an improvement to me, keep working on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Abner Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I guess I better work the manna in the way that I was working instead of doing like athlete....because the athlete begins farthest the legs when climbing and put more pressure on the arms, and the way I do, I let compressed legs and eases my climb... after completely dominating, hence try to do so.One new progress, if you look good, I'm more into close the horizontal... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhSlAZj8lfw appears that if I can tilt my head back when I'm on top appears that facilitates my way into the horizontal, I'll try to do it later... as the athlete of coach made, see in 00:06 - 00:09 seconds in this video; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Abner Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Good, now I can do a full manna... look;http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a ... 2844_n.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDERIC DUPONT Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Wow, very nice Lucas... you make it look easy! :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Congrats on your manna Lucas! Very nice! How did you train it and did you use Coach Sommer's progressions? How long did it take you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Abner Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Thanks friends!Congrats on your manna Lucas! Very nice! How did you train it and did you use Coach Sommer's progressions? How long did it take you?No, I got it differently, and I not trained the climb with her legs open as the Coach speaks... I let my legs together during ascent, and let the legs very close to my chest before moving to the vertical line.... That, to me, makes it easy to climb to the manna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Strelitz Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Outstanding work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Abner Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Congrats on your manna Lucas! Very nice! How long did it take you?I managed to do after 7 months of training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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