Strength testing video, form advise and help please :)

[Cappe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-jde_Gsgfw

Is my form good on all exercises (without handstand, I know I'm working towards straight body but my shoulders are very stiff at the moment).

Also what do you think about replacing tuck planche with planche leans? I haven't gained any strength there over 2 month and I think my biceps are the weak link so would it be a good choice?

How do you think I'd gain most out of next SSC and how to build it? On these exercise:

Adv. tuck front lever: I held maybe 15s

Flat tuck back lever: Max 26s

L-sit: Max 38s

Planche leans: will do 3 sets and aim for 30s

Handstand against wall (back against wall): 3 x 30s I did 3x25s before and I'm too lazy to max

Support hold in rings: Did 3 x 20s, will try 3x30 now too lazy to max.

You can compare to this too, it was about 2 and a half month ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQ6loI49Dk

Thanks in advance!

[Daniel Burnham]

It looks like you need to work hollow body. Your planche and back lever show weakness in this area.

[Cappe]

Maybe, or it might be because I don't know how to activate it?

Anyway any special exercises that let's me work on that? Planche leans maybe? If you suggest them, how should I keep my hands? Which direction of my fingers?

[Daniel Burnham]

Maybe, or it might be because I don't know how to activate it?

Anyway any special exercises that let's me work on that? Planche leans maybe? If you suggest them, how should I keep my hands? Which direction of my fingers?

Possibly, working hollow body holds will help tremendously. You will learn to take that body position and use it in the levers. Typically it is considered a pre-requisite to have a 60sec hollow hold before moving to the levers. I doubt you will make much more progress until you correct the body line. Its just to disadvantageous to extend with an arched back.

Planche leans are pretty helpful for learning the lean and protraction of the planche. Its a matter of preference which way you point your fingers. I can tell you from experience that back tends to help ring planche more than front. However back will produce more of a strain and I would recommend that you have a good amount of elbow prep before working them in a larger capacity. There are plenty of posts on planche leans including a really good one from Dillon.

[Cappe]

So was my form bad on all levers?

The reason my back was arched during FL was because I tried to retract shoulder blades as I heard you should do, right? So I should try to get hollow position on FL and BL training?

This is a correct hollow position right?

So should I try to add that to my program? Build up to 60s holds right? But I don't know how I'm going to be able to get that position in the BL and FL, feels strange :/ But How should I add it to my program? I'm doing FL and HLR on workout days, and L-sit on off days that works core so it's already getting killed, any idea?

Planche: Should I use hollow body here too?

Anyway I've seen Dillons post, but I don't know which hand position I should use. I use pushup bars for tuck planche as I will replace with planche leans for a while, and I'm doing PPP with fingers pointing forward or slightly to the side, but I don't know for Planche leans...

[Cole Dano]

On the pull ups, try to come to a deadhang and a complete stop at the bottom. This may cost you a couple of reps, that's ok.

For FL yes the scaps retract, but they won't fully retract, not enough to force you to arch.

On Tuck PL there could be more scapular protraction, as mentioned >>PL Leans.

[Cappe]

Yes I will work on that scapula protraction and retraction. But I don't know how to fix back lever arch...

[Cole Dano]

Go to a smaller opening in the BL try to find where the body line changes from hollow to arch.

[Cappe]

Go to a smaller opening? How do you mean?

[Cole Dano]

I mean how much the knees open (move back) in going from tuck to adv. tuck. Try to see if you can spot how far you can go keeping the hollow, or what's causing th arch in the movement from tuck to adv tuck.

[Cappe]

Nearly got it I think, maybe...

So I should try to keep straight back while trying to keep my knees closer to my chest as in the tuck back lever? Not that much but do you get it?

You can watch the whole flat tuck BL here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... -0Uh_klIU8

You see when I lower down, stop the vid. at 35s just before I open up my knees a bit more.

So I should do a tuck and then move into flat tuck slowly and see where the arch starts? Maybe I can post it here too?

[Cole Dano]

Yes that's what I'm suggesting.

[Cappe]

Ah ok finally I get it, sorry for being a retard haha ;D

Anyway, I'm starting a new SSC now. To get maximal gains, is this the best or could you give me some tips how to organize the schedule to get the max of it? It would be really helpful!

I was thinking of doing this until new year or something? Would you make any changes to get maximal gains? My main priority is probably getting that back lever as it is the easiest skill to learn and according to Coach, it will help planche progression a lot!

Tue/Thu/Sat FSP workout:

Adv. Tuck front lever (rings) 7 x 8s / rest, I don't know how much you should rest between FSP exercises, what's best?

^ max time is about 15s

Planche leans, floor fingers pointing backwards 45° to side: aiming for 3 x 20s /tuck planche (on thursday) 7 x 8s

^ Planche leans, I'm not doing correct SSC, will just try to get quality sets with protracted scapula. ^ Tuck planche max, about 18s, will probably superset it with FL work on thursdays

Adv. Tuck back lever (rings) 4 x 13s

^ max about 26s, but I will focus on getting right form first, no arch, completely straight back

Mon/Wed/Fri FSP workout:

L-sit on floor 3 x 19s / 60s rest, I found it good on these

^ max about 38s

Wall Handstand 3x30s hands very close to wall and back against wall

Support holds in rings 3 x 30s

[Daniel Burnham]

So was my form bad on all levers?

The reason my back was arched during FL was because I tried to retract shoulder blades as I heard you should do, right? So I should try to get hollow position on FL and BL training?

This is a correct hollow position right?

So should I try to add that to my program? Build up to 60s holds right? But I don't know how I'm going to be able to get that position in the BL and FL, feels strange :/ But How should I add it to my program? I'm doing FL and HLR on workout days, and L-sit on off days that works core so it's already getting killed, any idea?

Planche: Should I use hollow body here too?

Anyway I've seen Dillons post, but I don't know which hand position I should use. I use pushup bars for tuck planche as I will replace with planche leans for a while, and I'm doing PPP with fingers pointing forward or slightly to the side, but I don't know for Planche leans...

Yes your form was bad.

You need to finish the pre-requisites before working too much on the levers. Thats why they are PRE-requisites. Yes work up to 60 second hold on hollow body. If you cant hold the basic body position then you wont be able to hold it when you are in a lever.

How long is your l-sit? If it is less than 30 seconds than it cant be considered skill work that you can easily maintain in off days. Working things that you haven't completed in off days makes them on days. Its ok to have several on days in a row.

Use whatever hand position you want. I recommend facing front on floor. On the bars its pretty obvious what you need to do. Practice your leans how you want your planche to be. Its a step towards planche so learn the position well.

[Daniel Burnham]

Ah ok finally I get it, sorry for being a retard haha ;D

Anyway, I'm starting a new SSC now. To get maximal gains, is this the best or could you give me some tips how to organize the schedule to get the max of it? It would be really helpful!

I was thinking of doing this until new year or something? Would you make any changes to get maximal gains? My main priority is probably getting that back lever as it is the easiest skill to learn and according to Coach, it will help planche progression a lot!

Tue/Thu/Sat FSP workout:

Adv. Tuck front lever (rings) 7 x 8s / rest, I don't know how much you should rest between FSP exercises, what's best?

^ max time is about 15s

Planche leans, floor fingers pointing backwards 45° to side: aiming for 3 x 20s /tuck planche (on thursday) 7 x 8s

^ Planche leans, I'm not doing correct SSC, will just try to get quality sets with protracted scapula. ^ Tuck planche max, about 18s, will probably superset it with FL work on thursdays

Adv. Tuck back lever (rings) 4 x 13s

^ max about 26s, but I will focus on getting right form first, no arch, completely straight back

Mon/Wed/Fri FSP workout:

L-sit on floor 3 x 19s / 60s rest, I found it good on these

^ max about 38s

Wall Handstand 3x30s hands very close to wall and back against wall

Support holds in rings 3 x 30s

Honestly I would drop back lever. There is better general prep to be done at this stage than get it. Trust me if you are prepared back lever will be a breeze unless you have some weird mechanical disadvantage. Where are your FBEs? Without knowing how those are programed I cant really give you much more direction. They should account for a lot of volume at this point.

[Cappe]

I just tested hollow body and arch body hold, I could hold 60 seconds in both of them. So I think I've already past that strength lever tbh.

My l-sit is 38 seconds, but what do you mean with off and on days? Could u give an example? And I'm doing the L-sit on floor.

This is my workout without the FSP. I do FL, PL and BL statics before this and the reason I focus legs a bit is because I play football and doing quite much running so I need strong legs.

Note that this is the program I'm thinking of starting from now on.

A=tuesday, B=thursday, C= Saturday

Exercise sets x rep /rest. If I write A1. and A2 I mean supersetted with rest between all sets.

Workout A:

Pistol squats 3 x 5 / 75s

Glute ham raises 3 x 8 / 60s

Ankle jumps 3 x 15 / 45s

A1. Ring dips 5x5-8 / 60s between exercises and after the superset.

A2. Chinups weighted 5x5 /60s

Hanging leg raises 3 x 3-5 /60s

B:

Bulgarian split squats 3 x 8 / 30s between legs + 60s between sets

Single leg hip thrust 3 x 8 / 60s

Ankle jumps 3 x 15 /45s

A1. PPP 5x5 / 60s

A2. Inverted rows 5 x 5 -10 / 60s

HLR 3 x 3-5 / 60s

C:

Deadlifts 3 x 5 / 90s

Single leg calf raises 3 x 12 / 45s

A1. Pike press 5 x 5-8 / 60s I want to get a HeSPU but I don't know if these are good for that? Maybe partial reps HeSPU is better? If yes, back or stomach against wall?

A2. Pullups weighted 5x5 / 60s

HLR 3 x 3-5 / 60s

But how will my BL improve if I am not working it and what should I do instead?

My FSP, you can find them, posted them here earlier. I do L-sit, HS work, and support holds on the days between the workouts.

[Cappe]

I'd like to perfect my adv. tuck front lever and flat tuck back lever form also? But how?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cMXk9zFIPI

On BL I tried as Cole said, smaller opening from tuck to flat tuck, how is my form now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 1rqd-ye1I0

I was thinking of that I need to push down the rings a bit more maybe? And I'm not sure if my back looks good yet, I'm too noobie to judge that by myself

[Daniel Burnham]

I'd like to perfect my adv. tuck front lever and flat tuck back lever form also? But how?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cMXk9zFIPI

On BL I tried as Cole said, smaller opening from tuck to flat tuck, how is my form now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 1rqd-ye1I0

I was thinking of that I need to push down the rings a bit more maybe? And I'm not sure if my back looks good yet, I'm too noobie to judge that by myself

Yes push down on rings more. I dont think you are ready for the adv. tuck honestly. Like I said work the prereqs. then move to the rings. Focus on front lever back lever isnt as important for building foundational strength.

[Cappe]

But the prereq is so boring and I can already hold 60s on all variations no problem...

Why don't you think I'm ready? I do have to strength to perform a adv. tuck BL but I don't know how to make it perfect. And I really want to get that skill to show off (for my P.E. teacher mostly) in the gymnastic period in school hehe ;D

But was my adv. tuck front lever form good now?

And how's my full program with FBE?

[Cole Dano]

Cappe, you have the wrong attitude about this!

The pre-reqs form the basis for everything we do. They need to be done, and done some more, the great thing is the more you do them, the more they teach you. Do you really think there are some magic words we can tell you and suddenly you can do a BL? It doesn't work like that.

You need to work Hollow Body Hold, Arch Body Hold, and Plank as bare minimums. At this point you have to just trust that there is a reason for this and it will help.

As for strength you have the strength to perform an Adv. Tuck BL poorly. Honestly, spend more time in tuck, don't be in such a hurry, you'll only hurt yourself with that attitude. If not with this skill, another.

[Cappe]

I know...

But the reason why is because I don't know what to do, I try to change my program to get maximal gains in strength, but I really don't know how. If you guys just could help me fix my weekly schedule I'd love to do it, no matter if it's prereq exercises or FSP or FBE, I don't care. I just need a schedule to start going! Really, please help me! This is my best try of making a program, could you please tell me exactly what to change/remove/add that I won't injure myself and that I will make good progress? I've read through all these kinds of beginner stick threads but I still don't know what to do...

Monday:

I'm not doing anything here at the moment without football training sometimes.

Tuesday:

Workout A

FSP

Adv. Tuck front lever (rings) about 1 min in total; 7 x 8s

Planche leans 3 x 20s

Adv. Tuck back lever (rings) about 1 min in total; 4 x 13s

FBE

Pistol squats - 3 x 5 / 75s

Glute-Ham raises bent hips - 3 x 8 / 60s

Ankle jumps - 3 x 15 / 45s

A1. Ring dips - 5x5 supersetted with chinups

A2. Chin-ups 5x5 weighted

Hanging leg raises - 3 x 5 / 60s

Wednesday:

L-sit 3 x 19s

Wall Handstand 3x15s stomach against wall

Support holds rings 3 x 30s

Pull-up or inverted rows if I have extra energy, done in maybe the ladder or something like that

Thursday:

Workout B

FSP

Adv. Tuck front lever (rings) about 1 min in total; 7 x 8s

Tuck planche (pushup handles) about 1 min in total; 6 x 9s

Adv. Tuck back lever (rings) about 1 min in total; 4 x 13s

FBE

Bulgarian split squat - 3 x 8 / 30s+60s

Single leg hip thrust - 3 x 8 / 60s

Ankle jumps - 3 x 15 / 45s

A1. Pseudo planche pushups - 5 x 5 superset with inverted rows

A2. Inverted rows 5 x 5-12

Hanging leg raises - 3 x 5 / 60s

Friday:

L-sit 3 x 19s

Wall Handstand 3x15s stomach against wall

Support holds rings 3 x 30s

Pull-up or inverted rows if I have extra energy, done in maybe the ladder or something like that

Saturday:

Workout C

FSP

Adv. Tuck front lever (rings) about 1 min in total; 7 x 8s

Planche leans 3 x 20s

Adv. Tuck back lever (rings) about 1 min in total; 4 x 13s

FBE

Deadlifts - 3 x 5 / 90s

Single leg calf raises - 3 x 8 / 45s lower volume

A1. Pike press feet elevated - 5 x 5-8 / 60s

A2. Weighted pullups 5 x 5 / 60s

Hanging leg raises - 3 x max / 60s

Sunday:

L-sit 3 x 19s

Wall Handstand 3x15s stomach against wall

Support holds rings 3 x 30s

Pull-up or inverted rows if I have extra energy, done in maybe the ladder or something like that

If any of you just could quote this and then remove/change/add some exercises that I should do it would be so helpful! I'm up for anything, you can change the whole program if you'd like, but I still want to work my legs. Where should I do prereq exercises and such?

[Karri Kytömaa]

Really why not just follow the WOD? Throw one additional day for leg training and I think you are good to go with just that.

And "just that" of course includes warm up with all prereqs and SSC of all the statics you are learning.

Really if you are not aiming for some specific goals, it's really the best route to take and you can forget all the hard job of programming cause the best have done it for you.

[Cole Dano]

Cappe on the weighted chin up (supinated grip) or do you mean pull up (pronated grip)?

(in either case drop the weight and do the next progression in the book)

Kilroy Template

1) planche variations

2) BL variations

3) FL variations

4) Handstand work

After I finish my static work for a given workout, which generally consisted of 7-10 sets of each movement, the remainder of my workout looked like this:

Day 1 - horizontal plane pushing and pulling FBE

Day 2 - curling (inverted pullup) and dipping variations (RTO dips, etc..) FBE

Day 3 - pullup and HeSPU variation FBE

Day 4 - multiplane pulling variaions + varied pressing work

Since Kilroy is light on legs and IMO you are doing too many exercises per session, you could make the following mod to the template -

Day 1 - FL / PL / pushing and pulling FBE

Day 2 - BL / HS / Legs

Day 3 - FL / PL / pushing and pulling FBE

Day 4 - BL / HS / Legs

Day 5 -Variety

[Cappe]

Flameous:

I have to book, but I'm bad at scaling down movements and that will only confuse my for the moment I think.

Cole Dano:

You gave me a good idea, as I feel personally 2 pulling and pushing days a week isn't enough, maybe I should consider doing something like this:

Day 1: FL / PL / pushing and pulling FBE (+ football (soccer) training, cardio session) just sometimes

Day 2: Legs and core

Day 3: BL / HS / pushing and pulling FBE + football training, outdoors, every week

Day 4: Legs and core

Day 5: FL / PL / pushing and pulling FBE, combined (+ football training, cardio session) just sometimes

Day 6: BL / HS / pushing and pulling FBE + football training, indoors

Day 7: Football training outdoors

FSP, not sure how long sets and "reps" and such, could you help out here?

FL = adv. tuck front lever 7 sets of 8 seconds

PL = planche leans maybe??? Or should I work on something else? And what grip (pushup handles, floor fingers back or forward)

BL = adv. tuck back lever 6 sets of 10 seconds?

HS = handstand, stomach against wall, end of my hands/wrist 4-6" away (I don't mean that my fingers are so close, I mean the closest point of the hand is about 4-6" away), sets of about 15s works ok for me, but how many?

FBE:

Day 1: horisontal push and pull (PPP and row)

Day 2: Pistol squats, GHR (bent hips), ankle jumps single leg, Hanging leg raises, circuit of hollow, arch and plank holds

Day 3: Dip and curl (as I can't do russian dips probably work on them and inverted curl)

Day 4: Deadlifts, hip thrust, single leg calf raises, hanging leg raises, circuit of hollow, arch and plank holds

Day 5: Combined pull and push, ring muscle ups

Day 6: Partial reps HeSPU (about half reps I think) and pull-up variation (L-sit chin ups probably)

Reps and sets: on push and pull exercises, goal is 5 x 5, on legs different.

What do you think? But now it hit me, I'm not doing L-sit :/ Is it necessary?

Do you think this would give me great results or not?

[Cole Dano]

FL: Starts by building a solid 3x60s Hollow Body Hold.

Since you are already working FL directly, continue but make it your second priority.

PL: Gymnastic Plank 3x60s and PL Leans

BL: Arch Body Hold 3x60s

HS: 3x60s Stomach to the wall

Since you haven't been doing the 3x60s pre-reqs methodically I would work that for at least a 6 weeks. And the following just to touch base with them.

Work L-Sit on PL days.

Keep your eyes out for the 2nd edition of BtGB, all will be clear then.

FL / BL / PL / HS is core work! Pair BL / HS with leg days for now.

OverallI think your schedule is very ambitious. Coach recommends at lest a couple of light days a week. If you are going that hard, making strength gains will be difficult, only do three upper body days at most.