Proper Form For Front-Lever Pullup

[Joshua Slocum]

I was attempting to perform some front-lever pullups the other day when I realized that I don't know what the proper form for the movement is. Specifically, I'm not sure how close the hands are supposed to get to the hips. I can get my hands to within 3-4 inches of my hips, but not quite to the point where they touch. Is this improper form? Should I do an easier exercise until I'm able to touch my hands to my hips on the FLPU? If not, how high up should I pull in order to do a 'correct' FLPU?

[Joshua Naterman]

Think you could show a video?

 

It sounds like you've got a good beginning, for sure.

[Joshua Slocum]

Yeah, I'll post one tomorrow. 

[Joshua Slocum]

One set:

http://youtu.be/TnxKl8v8_ws

 

And then a later set in the same workout:

http://youtu.be/abWHknAiDRA

 

My hips are piking in many of them and my back isn't staying very level, so perhaps I should do these with an assist? Am I pulling myself close enough to the rings or do I need to go up more?

[andiswf]

hey, the moment I saw the picture of the video i was woundering why you do those on RINGS? beast!

for normal guys, it is very impressive what you do!

but we are not normal here, and you want some hints!

 

so I would recommand doing those front-lever pullups mainly on a (p)bar, because the movement of the rings are good, but makes perfect form&technique way too difficult for the beginning:

 

your first pullup in the first video (straddled) was nice! but then your hip sank too low and you had to pike more.

the second video with the first pullup with legs together was impressive! however it seemed that your hips were piked even in the front lever the moment you had straight arms and the FL psoition.

so, I would recommand lots of front lever variations to make your front lever rock solid:

f.e.: *front lever in different bars/rings/slings and grips.

*also straight FL turns with straight arms and go back down for negatives.

*FL while rings are swinging...

 

now my main thoughts, even if I cant do perfect FL-pullups:

in the straddled variation / with pikeing (I tried it right now!) the pullup move (of the hands: i mean the direction where the hands are going to) is going more to the chest.

for me, this is not the sense of a front lever pull up.

While a straight FL-pullup tends to go into the victorian position = hands move more in the direction of the hips. This direction,THATS the challenge and sense of a very sepcific muscle work.

maybe its a preference from me, because I used those pullups to build some basic strength for victorian training...

 

however, your videos are really nice!

and its a nice pulllup variation! you could also pike even more so that your legs are vertikal: all variations are GOOD! and makes your muscle smarter.

 

maybe you try the (really) straight variation with a spot on a bar, and I hope you will understand the difference I try to mention.

[Joshua Naterman]

Your shoulders are rising before your hips.

My suggestion is to work on a short (3-4 second) bent arm FL hold at the top so that you can find your center of gravity, and then slowly (like for 10s) lower down into the FL. This will be hard, and may need to be done as singles, but it will help you adjust your position so that you are always staying level.

Your straddle is so wide that there isn't a huge difference from a flat tuck at 90/90 hips/knees, so you may want to stick with that for a while and build up your strength endurance.

I was able to do 10-15 good reps in the 90/90 flat tuck, depending on the set, when I had a good solid 10s FL. I could do maybe 3-5 proper form with a pretty crappy straddle, but I could not quite get full ROM with full lay... I probably had 70% of it with the full lay. This may or may not be a useful benchmark for you.

I'm not anywhere close enough to that strength level right now, but based on where I was and what I remember, and what I see working when I have people train, you need to be working on that top position and then working on slowly lowering down to a proper FL.

[Joshua Naterman]

Also, having a light fingertip spot can make a huge, huge difference! You will learn much faster that way, so don't hesitate to ask people for a quick spot!

[Karri Kytömaa]

I've understood that manageable ROM with FL rows depends quite a bit on genetic factors. Anyways the leverage gets extremely low the higher you pull. I think that good practice is to see where you can get yourself with tuck FL and aim for same ROM. 

 

And I agree (obviously) with Joshua that you should be doing these in flat tuck. With straddle you managed two good reps, with adv. tuck you should probably hit 5, giving nice working sets.

[Brian Li]

I've understood that manageable ROM with FL rows depends quite a bit on genetic factors. Anyways the leverage gets extremely low the higher you pull. I think that good practice is to see where you can get yourself with tuck FL and aim for same ROM. 

 

And I agree (obviously) with Joshua that you should be doing these in flat tuck. With straddle you managed two good reps, with adv. tuck you should probably hit 5, giving nice working sets.

Really? Where did you hear about it? I am starting to believe that too.

[Joshua Naterman]

It's all about upper arm to lower arm length, thickness of torso, and (importantly) how strong your triceps and rotator cuff muscles are.

 

If you can touch your hips to the bar in proper form like Zef did in a video someone posted, you are strong as hell in that position. The elbow is flexed to less than 90 degrees, and that makes things quite difficult.

[Brian Li]

I don't think it's possible for me to have the hands at about body level in a FL/FL row. I even tried by pulling into it from a bent arm hang and still couldn't get the hips to bar. I just can't get past a certain point. My lower arms are longer than the upper arms if you include the hands.

[andiswf]

now my main thoughts, even if I cant do perfect FL-pullups:

in the straddled variation / with pikeing (I tried it right now!) the pullup move (of the hands: i mean the direction where the hands are going to) is going more to the chest.

for me, this is not the sense of a front lever pull up.

While a straight FL-pullup tends to go into the victorian position = hands move more in the direction of the hips. This direction,THATS the challenge and sense of a very sepcific muscle work.

maybe its a preference from me, because I used those pullups to build some basic strength for victorian training...

 

however, ....

....its a nice pulllup variation! you could also pike even more so that your legs are vertikal: all variations are GOOD! and makes your muscle smarter.

We are talking all about the same phenomen!

I will try to take another movement to compare it to >> push-ups!

1) So doing front lever pull ups with a NOT straight body (=tucked, straddled, piked..) your hands tend to go automatically towards your chest. so your arms are extremely bent in the highest position. (and you will proberbly not be able to touch the bar with your hips: same in other words: you wont get your hands at about body level).

>> This I would like to compare to a regular push-up. in the lower position your hands are at your chest!

 

2) Doingt FL-Pull-ups with a straight body, is another thing! you will tend to go further to your hips with your hands in top position. (so your arms are less bent than in the not-straight versions, and so you could reach the bar with your hips)

As this is a "victorian" type of the FL-pull-up it is extremely hard to achive, but if you are prepared it is an awesome exercise!

>>Compared to push-ups, This would be like "maltese" type of pushups: your hands are more in the direction of your hips, so that your shoulder has to lean forward.

 

please let me mention, that all variations are good and helps your muscle to get smarter!

hope my post isnt harsh or whatever..so pls dont get me wrong =)

 

if your are prepared, but not rdy for straight FL-pull-ups, you could maybe try to pull up more to your hips. (the arms have to be straighter even if you are bending them for pulling yourself up! scapula fixation exercises should also be done before ...retraction exercises!)

As always, pls be carefull and pay attention because of your tendons/ligaments and so on..

[Rik de Kort]

helps your muscle to get smarter!

I like this concept. You have to make your muscles smarter, not confuse them!

[Brian Li]

We are talking all about the same phenomen!

I will try to take another movement to compare it to >> push-ups!

1) So doing front lever pull ups with a NOT straight body (=tucked, straddled, piked..) your hands tend to go automatically towards your chest. so your arms are extremely bent in the highest position. (and you will proberbly not be able to touch the bar with your hips: same in other words: you wont get your hands at about body level).

>> This I would like to compare to a regular push-up. in the lower position your hands are at your chest!

 

2) Doingt FL-Pull-ups with a straight body, is another thing! you will tend to go further to your hips with your hands in top position. (so your arms are less bent than in the not-straight versions, and so you could reach the bar with your hips)

As this is a "victorian" type of the FL-pull-up it is extremely hard to achive, but if you are prepared it is an awesome exercise!

>>Compared to push-ups, This would be like "maltese" type of pushups: your hands are more in the direction of your hips, so that your shoulder has to lean forward.

 

please let me mention, that all variations are good and helps your muscle to get smarter!

hope my post isnt harsh or whatever..so pls dont get me wrong =)

 

if your are prepared, but not rdy for straight FL-pull-ups, you could maybe try to pull up more to your hips. (the arms have to be straighter even if you are bending them for pulling yourself up! scapula fixation exercises should also be done before ...retraction exercises!)

As always, pls be carefull and pay attention because of your tendons/ligaments and so on..

You may be right. That tuck-straddle/half FL rows can't be pulled all the way to body level and I may simply be not strong enough to pull to my hips for the full lay FL rows yet and judging my max ROM of my tuck-straddle/half FL rows to determine my max ROM for the full FL rows would be incorrect because they can't be pulled to body level. I never thought of it this way. Thanks andiswf!

 

On the other hand though, I remember Joshua Naterman saying that he could do tuck or adv tuck FL rows with the bar touching the body and I've tried getting into a full lay bent arm FL with bar touching the hips from a bent arm hang and failed to get the bar that low (only got to where the upper arms were in line with my torso which is about as far as I could go in full FL rows). So i'm not sure if you're completely right. Sorry! 

[Brian Li]

I like this concept. You have to make your muscles smarter, not confuse them!

Don't you have to confuse them first to make them smarter?

[Rik de Kort]

Don't you have to confuse them first to make them smarter?

No, learning doesn't work that way. You have to challenge them, which is something different altogether. You pose a problem they cannot easily solve, but that's within their reach. If you pose a problem that they can't solve at all, they either end up getting confused and giving up.

[Lucas Serur]

No, learning doesn't work that way. You have to challenge them, which is something different altogether. You pose a problem they cannot easily solve, but that's within their reach. If you pose a problem that they can't solve at all, they either end up getting confused and giving up.

Unless they have an exam within a week, for they will have no choice.

[Joshua Naterman]

Don't you have to confuse them first to make them smarter?

I thought this myth had been laid to rest...

[andiswf]

Sry, I am new here and did really not want to give arguments that lead to off topic discussions!

maybe we can focus on the topic again?!

 

so, as a variation, maybe try to pull your hands to the hips... with a person giving enough assistence!

 

without a spotter: fix a theraband/elasic on the bar (one side left, one side right side to your body) that lifts you up a bit.

[Joshua Naterman]

The spot is definitely the way to go, there's just no way to over-state how much spotting helps you learn this stuff!

 

From a good spot, you can start at the proper end position and build the ability to hold it for time, and then start lowering down.

 

Bands can be tricky, but I have developed a system for this at home just to see if I could come up with a reasonable solution for people.

 

I basicaly took a metal pipe, ran it through the XR straps next to the rings, and hung bands off of the pipe on the outside of the ring straps. This way they always had tension during FL work. That way I had support right at the center of gravity, so that the position isn't disturbed (this can be a small challenge, sometimes, and I recommend starting from an inverted hang after getting inside), and is the best mimic for a spot I could find. It's not all that great, compared to a spot, but when you're alone things are sub-optimal.