How Important Is Leg Strength ?

[Deins Drengers]

Hi !

 

First of all Don't get me wrong im not a complete newbie in this question.

 

Like in weightlifting - Legs are very important bodypart to train because it is our biggest muscle and it helps to get higher results on other compund lifts - Standing BB press, Deadlift, Benchpress.

 

But How important is Leg strength in gymnastics?

 

I did not find any info on the forum about it.

 

But for example - During an L-sit my legs (Quadriceps) give up first.  Isn't it like i lack the Quadriceps Strength ?

 

And does the same idea apply in gymnastics progression as with the weightlifing - If you train legs then you're other bodyparts will improove faster ?

 

And the final question would be - What exercises to do ? Sets reps ? 

Can i do Barbell squats with the 5x5 pattern or just Bodyweight and progress till full ROM pistol squats ?

 

Thank you !

[Daniel Burnham]

Leg strength specifically is important mostly for tumbling.  in the GB program it is important to develop a well rounded body without imbalances.  

 

Your Quads will catch up fast in L-sit.  The muscles just aren't used to pulling while being that short.  This is why most experience cramping.  It went away for me after a few weeks.  

 

The idea of training squats to improve other lifts is based on hormonal response.  You train a larger part of your musculature so the hormonal response it bigger.  I do not train squats but twice a week and have not noticed a difference really from when I did legs 4 days a week.  Even though a lot of the movements I do are using shoulder, they use a lot of the body to keep the shape and bodyline straight.  I may be wrong but I believe this creates about the same response from the body.

 

Either barbell squats for Single Leg Squats will work.  I think they can be worked in tandem.  Ever since I tried I have been able to do a one legged squat, but I had been doing barbell squats for years.  The single leg squat gives an extra element of balance which I find to be important.  I do 3x3 front and back squats in order to keep volume low so I don't get too much growth.  I have had a pretty big imbalance between lower and upper body ever since I stopped doing weightlifting.  

[Tyler Gibson]

Gymnasts require a different type of leg strength. They need explosive legs and good rebound strength for floor routines and strong tendons for absorbing hard landings. That said, any excessive mass in the legs will make advanced ring elements more difficult. Thus it is most advantageous for gymnasts to improve leg strength without increasing mass. That said gymnastics is a very shoulder girdle dominant sport. You will not find gymnasts that have hips nearly as strong as olympic lifters or powerlifters. 

 

With regard to specific skills like L-sit and straddle positions, you will need strength to hold the legs straight, and you will likely cramp up the first time you attempt these positions. This is also a specific type of leg strength though. Performing L-sits won't give you a 500lbs squat. 

 

Heavy squats and deadlifts have a tremendous hormonal and neurological response that in powerlifting leads to an increase in muscle mass and strength in all lifts. I believe that these lifts are hormonally beneficial to any athlete, but in my experience they will not increase progress in upper body gymnastics movements, especially as any extra leg mass will slow your progress. 

 

How you program your legs depends on your goals. If your goals are to become proficient at gymnastics or achieve difficult gymnastics elements on rings, lifting heavy for the lower body will likely slow your progress. If you wish to improve overall athletic performance or get stronger all over, lifting is, in my opinion, the most effective way to train the lower body.

 

Personally I want and need strong legs for rugby, so I substitute lower body WODs with a max effort squat or deadlift day. This works very well for me, but if you want to avoid excessive leg mass I would follow the WODs, or perform a Barry Ross style deadlift workout.

[Daniel Burnham]

Addidashed: I used to use the barry ross style as well.  I found it to work pretty well.  I have since pretty much stopped lifting.  I lift every couple of weeks just to kind of maintain the strength I used to have.  When I stopped I had a 2xbodyweight back squat and a 225 front squat. For reference weight about 150.

[Tyler Gibson]

Nice! Personally I have not experimented with a Barry Ross template and the WODs, but I am a big fan of Ross. I think the programming is perfect for anyone in a sport where it is important to have maximal strength without gaining weight (gymnastics, martial arts, sprinting). It's good to hear that you've gad good results using that style.

 

At the moment I am doing a max effort leg day once a week, similar to 5/3/1 leg days. I have a 2x bodyweight deadlift at a weight of 170, and I don't know my back squat max. I'm currently learning a more powerlifting style of squat so I won't test a max until I'm more comfortable with the style.

[Deins Drengers]

Personally I want and need strong legs for rugby, so I substitute lower body WODs with a max effort squat or deadlift day. This works very well for me, but if you want to avoid excessive leg mass I would follow the WODs, or perform a Barry Ross style deadlift workout.

 

What exactly is a Barry Ross style Deadlift workout? 

[Riku Calderón]

adidashred: did you mean that the Barry Ross template is best leg workout you know for an martial artist?

 

I do MMA and I have been experimenting different strength programs. Now i know that GB is the best for my upper body and core. I think i still need some convincing that it is best for my legs also.

 

Everybody else can help too. Thanks.

[Tyler Gibson]

MrPuppeh: Barry Ross is a track coach who has coached a number of world record and olympic sprinters. His training regimen for his athletes consists of max effort deadlifts with low volume and a lot of explosive work. The goal of this style of workout is to increase maximal strength without increasing weight. This is very important for sprinters because essentially if you can get stronger legs without getting bigger, you will get faster. 

 

For more information on him, read this:

 

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/the-holy-grail-in-speed-training/default.aspx

 

If you're still interested, buy his book, Underground Secrets to Faster Running.

 

RiQC: I am not a martial artist so I cannot say what is most effective or beneficial for that sport. I do think that a Barry Ross template for leg workouts could work well for a martial artist. Especially if you compete in MMA or anything that is divided by weight class, increasing strength without increasing weight would be beneficial. I know there are some guys on here who are martial artists so they could answer your question better, but from my experience, a Barry Ross template is great for anyone looking to increase maximal strength without an increase in weight.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Alternatively, you could try "Litvi Sprints" (Named after '80es Hammer Thrower Sergey Litvinov)

You'll have to look it up, but in a word, Litvi sprints consist of 8 heavy squats immediately followed by a 400m sprint! Rinse, repeat...

 

PS: Don't plan on going out dancing for a couple of days after that!

[Riku Calderón]

 Thanks guys for the help.

 

Yes i compete in 70kg division. I normally whey about 74-75,5kg so i can´t take any more mass on me.

 

I think that i could try the SLS progression for starters. I have been doing mostly crossfit at the morning and technique and sparring at the evening. Crossfit takes too much from me to perform grate at my sparring sessions. and gives mad DOMS.

 

Do you think that if i only do the gymnastics for strength that i can do 4 x week everything? you know pushs, puls, core and legs. I think that is far less stressful to the system than all out metcons that i have been doing.

[Tyler Gibson]

Usually the WODs are pretty good for leaving you fresh enough for practicing other sports. I think a gymnastics workout 4x a week would be fine. Once you're into the groove of a routine it shouldn't result in a whole lot of DOMS.

[Riku Calderón]

Thanks! The movements are still too hard for me to do WODs so i start like the book suggests. Just first use the prerequisites. I can do at least 60s each easily. I think i can do 3 x 60s but that i still have to try. I do one month those no matter.